magicwoand
It tizwas it is
You could have swapped the colours on that and it wouldn’t have looked any different. It looked off on first viewing, when they drew the lines he looked bang on level.
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Snatchday 1: Nottingham Forest Vs the PGMOL
- Thread starter Alf-engelos Mindminackers
- Start date
enlightened
First Team Squad
If they are going to keep VAR - which I'd much rather they didn't - the offside rule needs to change. You should be able to draw a line (not necessarily straight) vertically between the two players that doesn't touch either of them at any point for it to be offside. If there is any overlap at all in the player's silhouettes then play on!
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Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
I still think right idea, wrong execution.
We may at some point get the rules changed, the game may be better for it in the long run, but I fear the last 4 games this season will see decisions go against us and for our relegation rivals on a whole new level. Folk will say "that's not possible", but it very much is. We didn't get any red cards yesterday for example, but I'll be amazed if we see the season out without any now.
Ultimately the game may end up better for it, but it will be probably be our Prem status which is sacrificed for that change now the target is on our back.
Anyway, here's some Facebook reactions to it, mixed responses as expected...
We may at some point get the rules changed, the game may be better for it in the long run, but I fear the last 4 games this season will see decisions go against us and for our relegation rivals on a whole new level. Folk will say "that's not possible", but it very much is. We didn't get any red cards yesterday for example, but I'll be amazed if we see the season out without any now.
Ultimately the game may end up better for it, but it will be probably be our Prem status which is sacrificed for that change now the target is on our back.
Anyway, here's some Facebook reactions to it, mixed responses as expected...
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Last comment is gold.
Forest got a decision against Burnley and gained us a point so let's just sweep aside the 20 or so shite ones we've had against us that have cost us what, 10, 15 points?
Forest got a decision against Burnley and gained us a point so let's just sweep aside the 20 or so shite ones we've had against us that have cost us what, 10, 15 points?
HappyHappyJoyJoy
Viv Anderson
And even that emphasises the point that games are turning on bad decisions.
So much money in this league and yet the administration of it has never been more amateur.
Alan Akbah
Geoff Thomas
As with most organisations with huge incomes you can guarantee that the mechanisms for shovelling money into Director's and Executive's pockets will be world class.
magicwoand
It tizwas it is
For those saying we shouldn’t have tweeted that and we will now have a target on our back going forward and to expect more bad decisions. Then that is the very definition of corruption.
SouthManchesterTree
First Team Squad
G Nev was saying it’s OK for the club to ask their manager to blast referees, but it’s not OK for the club to do it through their official social media channels. Why on earth is that?
GOBIAS
Ian Bowyer
I still don’t understand the issue with the clear and obvious either. A decision is either wrong or right.
As I said yesterday somewhere why isn’t offside treated with this clear and obvious brush as well? If you run a replay, run it at slow motion, freeze the frame as the pass happens and still can’t tell if it is offside then is it a clear and obvious error?
But the referees seem to think they are undermining other refs but they aren’t. Nobody expects refs to get it right on the field all the time, they don’t do too bad tbh with a difficult job, but if they are unsighted or having to make a quick decision from behind the play this tech should be there to help them. Not show them up, not highlight a mistake, it isn’t a mistake if you haven’t seen it properly.
Back to the clear and obvious, all the clear and obvious thing does is add another layer of interpretation, one man’s clear and obvious isn’t clear and obvious to another. Why do that to the decision making process? So in the old days you had contention over the on field decision. Now you have contention over the decision, over whether var intervene initially or not, over the Var decision and over whether it is clear and obvious. It’s mental.
What has Howard Webb done to improve things by the way? He seems to have made it ten times worse. Did anyone see him yesterday skulking out of whatever ground he was at, basically taking the piss out of the situation. Sack the **** as he’s totally inept.
GOBIAS
Ian Bowyer
I do find it quite funny by the way that our backroom staff seem to take it in turns to slate the 4th official. Every week a new geezer I’ve never seen before seems to get a yellow card. I’m sure some are just nuno’s mates from the boozer 
Notcher
Stuart Pearce
I've mentioned before that the objective should be to remove as much subjectivity as possible. The decisions themselves are almost entirely subjective barring goal line and maybe offside. By saying that a decision needs to be a clear and obvious error to intervene has added another layer of subjectivity before you even get to the actual decision. Now you have to subjectively decide whether something is clear and obvious. One person's clear and obvious isn't clear and obvious to someone else. It's absolutely batshit mental that perimeter has been added. Just remove it
Thinking about this last night I've had enough of the Premier league and VAR. Let's just tell them we don't want to play in their league and want to move to the championship next season (probably going to happen anyway). I know about the financial consequences and what we have wanted for 20+ years but need to take a stand. Lost all faith in top level football.
Timothy Pope
I know that Nuno that I know that Nuno that I know
The referees and VAR should be working as a team to correctly apply the rules of the game. If they can see that the on-field referee has made an error, then they should highlight it and correct it. They can then congratulate themselves on a job well done. That is their purpose - not the doubling down to ensure that the in-field referee looks infallible!
Well, one last comment on yesterday before getting on with the week doing what I'm supposed to be doing. I went to bed early last night after getting back and reading the forum thinking I'd feel better after sleeping on it. Spoiler alert, I don't, I'm just as low about the officiating AND the performance, but I want to talk about VAR.
As someone who watches a lot of Serie A the root of the problems we have with VAR in the Premier League are obvious. We have created a narrative here, and we as fans bear part of the guilt for this, that any intervention by VAR paints the on field referee in a bad light because it shows he got something wrong. That is the background to how VAR operates in the Premier League, that it shows up the awful decision making of the referee and gives us all the chance to slag him off. Managers do it, players do it, pundits do it, fans do it. It's a toxic atmosphere around VAR that creates a victim mentality (remember what one of those looks like?) amongst the PGMOL leading to them wanting to back their mates not help them get decisions right.
In Serie A the opposite is true. VAR is seen as the extra eyes to help the man with the hardest job on the pitch. A referee can't see everything or get everything right (hello, that's why VAR exists in the first place) so in Italy everyone sees it purely as a team refereeing the game whereby the VAR is helping get the decisions right not showing up his mate. "The authority of the on field ref at all costs" isn't a thing (because it's stupid) and therefore VAR helping him correct what he doesn't see or gets wrong isn't seen as a threat or criticism of his performance. What does that lead to? It leads to 95% of decisions being made correctly (and quickly), that's what it leads to. Refs are sent to the screen a couple of times a game but because they trust their mate who's already seen it back they basically only take one look and make the correct call to get on with the game.
Now, I will say that Italian refs are infinitely better than ours, so that obviously helps, but the set up of the system by everyone in and around the game as a help rather than a threat makes it work. I've watched almost every Roma game this season and honestly, I can't tell you a single incident in the league, for or against, where VAR got involved and made a decision I thought was wrong. Not. Once.
The last time I watched a Roma game and was incensed by VAR was last season's Europa League Final when they were refused a penalty for a very similar incident to the Ashley Young handball yesterday, it was a stonewaller that was even more egregious and that non decision cost Roma the trophy and a place in the Champions League. All anyone heard about afterwards was Mourinho (he was stupid) going nuclear though so it got brushed under the carpet.
The referee for that final? Anthony Taylor.
The VAR official for that final? Stuart Attwell.
As someone who watches a lot of Serie A the root of the problems we have with VAR in the Premier League are obvious. We have created a narrative here, and we as fans bear part of the guilt for this, that any intervention by VAR paints the on field referee in a bad light because it shows he got something wrong. That is the background to how VAR operates in the Premier League, that it shows up the awful decision making of the referee and gives us all the chance to slag him off. Managers do it, players do it, pundits do it, fans do it. It's a toxic atmosphere around VAR that creates a victim mentality (remember what one of those looks like?) amongst the PGMOL leading to them wanting to back their mates not help them get decisions right.
In Serie A the opposite is true. VAR is seen as the extra eyes to help the man with the hardest job on the pitch. A referee can't see everything or get everything right (hello, that's why VAR exists in the first place) so in Italy everyone sees it purely as a team refereeing the game whereby the VAR is helping get the decisions right not showing up his mate. "The authority of the on field ref at all costs" isn't a thing (because it's stupid) and therefore VAR helping him correct what he doesn't see or gets wrong isn't seen as a threat or criticism of his performance. What does that lead to? It leads to 95% of decisions being made correctly (and quickly), that's what it leads to. Refs are sent to the screen a couple of times a game but because they trust their mate who's already seen it back they basically only take one look and make the correct call to get on with the game.
Now, I will say that Italian refs are infinitely better than ours, so that obviously helps, but the set up of the system by everyone in and around the game as a help rather than a threat makes it work. I've watched almost every Roma game this season and honestly, I can't tell you a single incident in the league, for or against, where VAR got involved and made a decision I thought was wrong. Not. Once.
The last time I watched a Roma game and was incensed by VAR was last season's Europa League Final when they were refused a penalty for a very similar incident to the Ashley Young handball yesterday, it was a stonewaller that was even more egregious and that non decision cost Roma the trophy and a place in the Champions League. All anyone heard about afterwards was Mourinho (he was stupid) going nuclear though so it got brushed under the carpet.
The referee for that final? Anthony Taylor.
The VAR official for that final? Stuart Attwell.
Timothy Pope
I know that Nuno that I know that Nuno that I know
I’ve said virtually the same point in another thread
Notcher
Stuart Pearce
Jordan about to talk about it now on talksport. Jim White also said they've got some further information
valspoodle
Steve Chettle
If the ref made a mistake and VAR corrected it, no one would comment. It's the fact that the ref makes a dubious decision or no decision at all and nothing is done which creates the problems.
The "solution" has created the problem. I agree with the point made that the massive efforts in the wording of the VAR rules to allow the ref to look infallible and in control is what is making the VAR almost unworkable.
The "solution" has created the problem. I agree with the point made that the massive efforts in the wording of the VAR rules to allow the ref to look infallible and in control is what is making the VAR almost unworkable.
theloner
Viv Anderson
We could literally save ourselves from Championship football and heavily influence the PL title race at the same time over 90 minutes next weekend. Wouldn't it be absolutely delicious.
Come on you reds
Come on you reds
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
Interesting that White is saying Forest DIDN'T officially request the removal of Atwell before the game, which would obviously suggest that the clun have just made that up out of sour grapes.
Could be bollocks though.
Notcher
Stuart Pearce
I think it's probably correct but for the reason that a club isn't allowed to request that officials should be removed. The most the club could do within their boundaries is make the PGMOL aware.
I'm Red Till Dead
Stuart Pearce
Agreed. If VAR can see that a defender has kicked a players leg rather than the ball then the referee obviously makes a clear and obvious error in his positioning if he doesn't see it or makes a clear and obvious error in his interpretation of the situation if he did.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
This is deliberately misleading.
We are not allowed to request the removal of a ref. Full stop.
Us making a suggestion that there may be a conflict of interest is as far as we were allowed to go. We did all we could.
Lefkasman
Ian Bowyer
Even this twat agrees with us.
Sent from my 23124RA7EO using Tapatalk
Sent from my 23124RA7EO using Tapatalk
Yep, there is a massive difference between:
„Hey, PGMOL, you know he’s a Luton Fan, yes?“
And:
„Hey, PGMOL, we want you to change the VAR because he’s a Luton fan“.