Snatchday 1: Nottingham Forest Vs the PGMOL

[thereds66]

Another point to be considered here is that Forest may well end up paying Attwell a shitload of money. The libel laws place the onus of proof on whoever makes the allegation. We have effectively pointed the finger at Attwell for being corrupt. That's the most serious allegation we could possibly make against both his personal character and his professional standing. If he sues -- and I would bet that there are money-grubbing lawyers on the phone to him right now -- NFFC has to prove in court, not that Attwell made poor judgements, but that he did so deliberately and for a corrupt purpose -- i.e. to help Luton. But that's unprovable. How we can show what was going on in his head?
So sickening as it may be to contemplate we could well end up giving Attwell the price of a nice house and having to issue a grovelling apology to him. Is that really what the club thought it was doing?

I guess if you look at the wording, we didn’t actually accuse Attwell of corruption, and wording means a lot in libel cases.

Forest said they raised concerns about him being a Luton fan before the game, which if it happened, it will be an undisputed fact.

They also said that they had three very poor mistakes made against then, again 2/3 mistakes is an undisputed fact.

 

[Colbackstreet Boys]

Been interesting to see most actually row in behind us on this, even championship clubs. Clearly something has snapped in the minds of most football fans now. PGMOL has pushed it further than they ever have this season and it shows.

There is something deep within me that doesn't mind it either. I've snapped too, and think in years to come it could emerge something much more sinister and systemic has been going on. I can foresee a syndicate of clubs taking some form of joint action post-season.

That said, I'm a bit old fashioned and think taking to Twitter and alleging corruption after what that team served up today and the mistakes Marinakis has made is f***ing embarrassing and just not cricket.

 

[Red Echo]

I really hope you're right, but I think it's more likely to have the opposite effect. We've put a huge target on our backs and I fully expect these bastards to take revenge on us for our effrontery. I don't think we'll get points back but I do think that in a crucial game (maybe on the last day against Burnley), a vital decision will go against us. The more outrageous the better -- it will be a warning to other "small clubs" to keep their mouths shut and play nice.

Agreed. The refs have an 'us against them' mentality as it is, for obvious reasons, and today will only exacerbate that. You can be sure that they're texting eachother in their WhatsApp group tonight, all backing their mate Stuart.

The VAR officials should be publicly-unknown boffins who can read a rulebook and apply it. Nothing more. Having the refs themselves behind the wheel is astonishing to me. They're all damaged goods.

 

[Motty_the_Younger]

Another point to be considered here is that Forest may well end up paying Attwell a shitload of money. The libel laws place the onus of proof on whoever makes the allegation. We have effectively pointed the finger at Attwell for being corrupt. That's the most serious allegation we could possibly make against both his personal character and his professional standing. If he sues -- and I would bet that there are money-grubbing lawyers on the phone to him right now -- NFFC has to prove in court, not that Attwell made poor judgements, but that he did so deliberately and for a corrupt purpose -- i.e. to help Luton. But that's unprovable. How we can show what was going on in his head?
So sickening as it may be to contemplate we could well end up giving Attwell the price of a nice house and having to issue a grovelling apology to him. Is that really what the club thought it was doing?

Forest are not accusing Attwell of being corrupt. We are accusing PGMOL of not accepting our reasonable request to replace him due to the risk of poor judgments caused by unconscious bias.

 

[Harry1982]

We have not actually said corruption, could always argue subconscious bias.

 

[YouReds43]

Great post from Forest, we’ve had about 10 clear penalties not given this season. can’t wait for the statement tomorrow threatening to withdraw from the league.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

If Var wants to appear transparent, the the conversations between them and the referee should be broadcast so that the fans and team coaches know what their thinking is because at the moment it seems like the conversation goes, "Who is it? Forest! F**k it let's not give it then."

There ought to be an in game appeal process to get the ref and Var to re review it and explain why when a player kicks anothers leg from under him it isn't a penalty. And when the referee says there wasn't enough contact the fouled player should be able to kick the ref in the same way and demonstrate that there really was.

 

[Baronvon]

Worth reading the comments in this. Virtually every single one is backing Forest and the statement.

Very frustrating to watch Neville endlessly bloviate about the "consider our options" line and never actually get to the real issue.

Stuart Attwell is a Luton fan - yet was somehow allowed to head up the VAR for a crucial game featuring their two rivals for safety. Even after Forest raised this concern.

That alone should be a significant red flag - the fact that Forest then fell victim to numerous unfathomably bad VAR decisions overseen by someone with that clear conflict of interest makes it legitimately scandalous.

Yet they're not taking about it. In fact, they very much look like they're doing their upmost to talk around it.

 

[chaospunx]

Great post from Forest, we’ve had about 10 clear penalties not given this season. can’t wait for the statement tomorrow threatening to withdraw from the league.

I'm not sure they would give a flying f*** to be fair were not important to them

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

One good thing which has come out of this, is at least it's taken fans minds off the price hikes.

Could prove to be a really smart/lucky bit of customer manipulation on the club's part.

 

[Timothy Pope]

Excuse my ignorance - and maybe those with more knowledge could help answer...

But isn't the tackle from behind outlawed now? So how can that attempt from Ashley Young on Hudson-Odoi be anything other than a foul - regardless of whether he touched the ball or not ?

 

[Notcher]

Having spent some time looking at the online reaction to various posts from different outlets and I'm quite shocked and actually heartened. I 100% support the tweet and believe it needed radical action and to be called out for what it is but understood a lot of others might view it differently especially from other clubs.

What I'm seeing though is a deluge of people (none forest supporters) that are overwhelmingly backing it. It's clear something has snapped here and that the PGMOL has pushed their luck once too often. I think the timing is right too, along with the PGMOL were have the PSR farce and the FA absolutely killing the FA Cup. The everyman football supporters have had enough. It's time to fight back and start to drain the swamp.

 

[BryanRoy22]

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Having spent some time looking at the online reaction to various posts from different outlets and I'm quite shocked and actually heartened. I 100% support the tweet and believe it needed radical action and to be called out for what it is but understood a lot of others might view it differently especially from other clubs.

What I'm seeing though is a deluge of people (none forest supporters) that are overwhelmingly backing it. It's clear something has snapped here and that the PGMOL has pushed their luck once too often. I think the timing is right too, along with the PGMOL were have the PSR farce and the FA absolutely killing the FA Cup. The everyman football supporters have had enough. It's time to fight back and start to drain the swamp.

Encouraging stuff.

It'll obviously be us who takes the brunt of any reprisals for them, but at least the noise which is being kicked up is getting some positive support. The real support of course, will be when other clubs come out and join us. Then we may actually get some positive changes.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

Louis Saha the only one talking some sense. The other two shills know where their bread is buttered.

The person that should resign is Neville. His suggestion is that Nuno goes out after a game and says how poor the referee was and takes a fine for it. He and others at Forest have done that and they get accused of being Whingers. Other clubs have complained about the refereeing decisions and what difference has it made It's got to the point now that we have a controversial decision against us more games than not and the refereeing has become a joke.

Forest have put their heads up above the parapet and cried foul, for me other clubs should be chipping in because for the supposed best League in the world, the refereeing standards are going downhill fast and descending into farce.

 

[coops89]

Very frustrating to watch Neville endlessly bloviate about the "consider our options" line and never actually get to the real issue.

Stuart Attwell is a Luton fan - yet was somehow allowed to head up the VAR for a crucial game featuring their two rivals for safety. Even after Forest raised this concern.

That alone should be a significant red flag - the fact that Forest then fell victim to numerous unfathomably bad VAR decisions overseen by someone with that clear conflict of interest makes it legitimately scandalous.

Yet they're not taking about it. In fact, they very much look like they're doing their upmost to talk around it.

Agree with your points. The problem with pundits on Sky is when they know a giant can of worms could be opened, they are probably told to protect the Premier League due to the enormous amount of money they pay to show it.

I am not one to normally over react but the decisions today were astounding and I feel at the very least there was unconscious bias going off.

 

[Notcher]

Encouraging stuff.

It'll obviously be us who takes the brunt of any reprisals for them, but at least the noise which is being kicked up is getting some positive support. The real support of course, will be when other clubs come out and join us. Then we may actually get some positive changes.

It always takes someone to be bold enough to make that first move and obviously Marinakis just so happens to be a crazy enough bastard to do it. Like you said I hope others grow some stones as a consequence although I do feel that this might already have opened a can of worms on the PGMOL in itself.

 

[BryanRoy22]

It always takes someone to be bold enough to make that first move and obviously Marinakis just so happens to be a crazy enough bastard to do it. Like you said I hope others grow some stones as a consequence although I do feel that this might already have opened a can of worms on the PGMOL in itself.

There was one thing Gary Nevgasm mentioned that did make me laugh.

When he said 'It sounds like a Mafia statement'. He's not heard about the bakery, has he?

 

[DB1702]

I think the entire football world is more or less in agreement that we should have had at least 2 penalties today maybe even 3.

Now if the VAR is a Luton fan and if Forest made a request to have the VAR official changed then all Forest have done is report on facts.

People jumping on it and how it’s embarrassing VAR is embarrassing these are basic errors that are being made every week.

It happened three times today once is unlucky twice is suspicious but three times that needs to be investigated and it needs to be called out.

Genuinely think the EPL want us out the league and are making sure we end up out of the EPL.

 

[coops89]

I’ve seen a fair few people not just on this forum but around various football sites asking ‘what options’. Not in any way suggesting Forest do this, but this happened in the Belgian league THIS season. Whilst I don’t think games should be replayed, the fact it has happened somewhere makes it plausible.


https://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/anderlecht-genk-var-replay-error-b2485908.html

 

[RedRobbo]

Been interesting to see most actually row in behind us on this, even championship clubs. Clearly something has snapped in the minds of most football fans now. PGMOL has pushed it further than they ever have this season and it shows.

There is something deep within me that doesn't mind it either. I've snapped too, and think in years to come it could emerge something much more sinister and systemic has been going on. I can foresee a syndicate of clubs taking some form of joint action post-season.

That said, I'm a bit old fashioned and think taking to Twitter and alleging corruption after what that team served up today and the mistakes Marinakis has made is f***ing embarrassing and just not cricket.

Where in the tweet did they allege corruption?

 

[Baronvon]

Agree with your points. The problem with pundits on Sky is when they know a giant can of worms could be opened, they are probably told to protect the Premier League due to the enormous amount of money they pay to show it.

I am not one to normally over react but the decisions today were astounding and I feel at the very least there was unconscious bias going off.

Oh of course. They're not going to bite the hand that feeds at the end of the day. Neville has already shown that his principles go out the door the second anyone waves cash in front of his face so his stance on this is to be expected.

Just frustrating that the real crux of the issue is drowned out by self righteous blather.

 

[MansfieldRed]

The person that should resign is Neville. His suggestion is that Nuno goes out after a game and says how poor the referee was and takes a fine for it. He and others at Forest have done that and they get accused of being Whingers. Other clubs have complained about the refereeing decisions and what difference has it made It's got to the point now that we have a controversial decision against us more games than not and the refereeing has become a joke.

Forest have put their heads up above the parapet and cried foul, for me other clubs should be chipping in because for the supposed best League in the world, the refereeing standards are going downhill fast and descending into farce.

In that commentary he talks about how Ferguson would go out and take that hit of a fine to criticise the referee and that they are the best spokespeople for such things. Ferguson stepped down from Man Utd in 2013, and over a decade later we are still talking about shit refereeing in the country. That hardly yells that managers have this massive influence that Neville seems to think they have.

 

[Arsebishop Desmond TwoTwo]

Was Stonehenge built by aliens?

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

In that commentary he talks about how Ferguson would go out and take that hit of a fine to criticise the referee and that they are the best spokespeople for such things. Ferguson stepped down from Man Utd in 2013, and over a decade later we are still talking about shit refereeing in the country. That hardly yells that managers have this massive influence that Neville seems to think they have.

Ferguson wouldn't have needed to complain much about referees anyway as he got all the decisions in the first place. "Fergie time" is a thing for a reason.