Snatchday 1: Nottingham Forest Vs the PGMOL

[DocForest]

Part of reasoning is what IFAB allows and doesn't allow.



I'm all for transparency but I'm certain it won't come cost free and won't be the panacea everyone desires.

For me, lots of these rule changes come with downsides. People rarely like the downsides when it affects their team. Like PSR everyone was for it when it Everton first time around. But when it was Forest, we'll...

I'm sure amongst all those chaotic lines of communication between officials, there is a bit where the actual VAR official gives his reason for his decision. That's the only bit that matters.
Regarding PSR i'm not sure your "everyone" is actually true. There's many who have long held the belief that it's designed to keep the "smaller" clubs in their place, whilst certain clubs have historically been allowed to get away things, and more likely will continue to do so. It's not helped this season when it's almost been made to look like they've created a relegation battle that should never have existed.

 

[Redemption]

Regarding PSR i'm not sure your "everyone" is actually true

I was taking in the vernacular, as I wasn't one of everyone either.

 

[alabamared]

Have any of you chosen to read this book?

If you haven't you really should.

One of misconceptions that many posters seem believe is that the EPL is about sport and fans and of course that is a long way from the truth. The EPL is a multi billion pound business and as such it works on a business model not a sporting model.

The EPL is not competitive. Think I am wrong? Tell me why.
If we cast out Blackburn and Leicester then only five teams have won the EPL in the last 30 years and the bulk of those going to the two Manchester teams, that in itself shows that the EPL is not a competitive league. Take a look at the records for the old first division and you will see the difference.
So in any business model competition is not a great thing all businesses look for stability so two or three clubs doing all the winning and providing a consistent product works very well.
What does this mean? My view is that like in any business the owners of that business will do everything in their power to prevent any change to the established order which means any club with ambition is not welcome.

 

[Redemption]

The EPL is not competitive. Think I am wrong? Tell me why.

You're cherry picking. So here's some other cherry...

The last 20 years of Division One, Liverpool won it 11 times, Arsenal, Everton and Leeds 2 times, Derby, Forest and Villa once each.

in those 2 decades, Liverpool won it more than all the other champions combined.

Was that competitive?

The top tier had already changed long before the EPL came along because money was already in the game.

In the middle of those 2 decades Forest spent £1m on a player. This doubled the record transfer fee.

The EPL was a product of the Games's evolution. It wasn't a breach.

 

[congo_red_49]

You're cherry picking. So here's some other cherry...

I like cherries. Not as much as bananas though.

 

[Project Zeus]

You're cherry picking. So here's some other cherry...

The last 20 years of Division One, Liverpool won it 11 times, Arsenal, Everton and Leeds 2 times, Derby, Forest and Villa once each.

in those 2 decades, Liverpool won it more than all the other champions combined.

Was that competitive?

The top tier had already changed long before the EPL came along because money was already in the game.

In the middle of those 2 decades Forest spent £1m on a player. This doubled the record transfer fee.

The EPL was a product of the Games's evolution. It wasn't a breach.

Brian Clough received £100k in 1974 for 44 days' work at Leeds. The average cost of a house in the UK was £9k. He could have bought 11 houses with his payoff.

The money was here well before the Premier League was formed.

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[YellowBelly Red]

If VAR audio transparency became the norm and we got to hear the decisions as they were being made (or even shortly after), one thing I can definitely guarantee is that it would quickly become far more professional and, by extension, competent.

Because let's face it, the main reason they've not released any audio publicly from the Everton match is almost certainly on account of it being a dumpster fire of ineffectual twattery.

It could come to having to allow a representative from each club to sit in the VAR room and observe. Not to interfere in any way, not even speak but just make sure everything is above board.

With the rise of AI, who is to say that the PGMOL are fabricating things after the event?

 

[WSM EXILE]

You know what I'd like to see if we get through all this circus, and manage to stay up this year? the Big man in Nottingham town centre with a microphone singing I did it my way with a silver glitter suit on that would be fucgging awesome

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[alabamared]

You're cherry picking. So here's some other cherry...

The last 20 years of Division One, Liverpool won it 11 times, Arsenal, Everton and Leeds 2 times, Derby, Forest and Villa once each.

in those 2 decades, Liverpool won it more than all the other champions combined.

Was that competitive?

The top tier had already changed long before the EPL came along because money was already in the game.

In the middle of those 2 decades Forest spent £1m on a player. This doubled the record transfer fee.

The EPL was a product of the Games's evolution. It wasn't a breach.

So firstly you are comparing 20 years with the 30 years I quoted (and then accuse me of cherry picking?)

So let us just do a little deeper comparison over two sets of thirty years.
Over the final thirty years of the First Division
13 different teams won the title
14 different teams were runners up
15 different teams finished 3rd
30 years of the EPL
7 different teams have won the title
7 different were runners up
10 different teams have finished third

If you accept that the 'elite' teams are Man C, Man U, Chelsea, Arsenal, Liverpool and Spurs then in the last ten years only one team (Leicester) outside of these elite have finished in the top 3. The same is true of the prior 10 years again only one team outside of the elite finished in the top 3 (Newcastle United).
So apart from those two occasions all instances of a non elite team finishing the top 3 were confined to the first ten years of the EPL.
So tell me that the EPL is competitive.

 

[Redemption]

So firstly you are comparing 20 years with the 30 years I quoted (and then accuse me of cherry picking?)

I acknowledged I was cherry picking too

So tell me that the EPL is competitive.

The point I was making is not that the EPL is competitive, but that the top division had been uncompetitive on the same terms before the EPL.

The 20 years prior to the EPL had already set the tone.

 

[alabamared]

Brian Clough received £100k in 1974 for 44 days' work at Leeds. The average cost of a house in the UK was £9k. He could have bought 11 houses with his payoff.

The money was here well before the Premier League was formed.

Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk

Not in anything like the quantity it is now.
Players on £10million plus a year? There was nothing in the old First Division even to remotely compare with that (even taking in account of inflation).
The price of tickets has increased exponentially compard to wages meaning that Joe Average is priced out.

 

[alabamared]

I acknowledged I was cherry picking too


The point I was making is not that the EPL is competitive, but that the top division had been uncompetitive on the same terms before the EPL.

The 20 years prior to the EPL had already set the tone.

So do you want the EPL to be competitive or stay the same preddictable outcome as now?

 

[Lefkasman]

Not in anything like the quantity it is now.
Players on £10million plus a year? There was nothing in the old First Division even to remotely compare with that (even taking in account of inflation).
The price of tickets has increased exponentially compard to wages meaning that Joe Average is priced out.

Yes, there must be plenty who can't afford it anymore, there must be quite a few who also think, bugger that I ain't paying those prices.

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[tomw94]

f***ing hell, Sky are now even bringing up the decisions we got in the Playoff final to almost justify all the shit we have had this season, lead by non other than Roy Keane -

It has certainly been an eye opener to see who has our back and who does not. The media are doing a great job at adding fuel to our "us against them" mentality.
At this rate we will need to do our own rendition of Millwall's "No one likes us we don't care..."

 

[Alan Akbah]

Brian Clough received £100k in 1974 for 44 days' work at Leeds. The average cost of a house in the UK was £9k. He could have bought 11 houses with his payoff.

The money was here well before the Premier League was formed.

Sent from my SM-G990B using Tapatalk

Liz Truss is getting £130k a year for life for just 49..... We are looking at a good £4m plus in her case.

Clough's contract was paid up because they wanted rid quickly, so they paid his whole contract up, including giving him his company Mercedes. It wasn't anything particularly special.

Seeing as he rocked up here just 16 weeks later I'd say we got an even better deal than he did.

 

[Alan Akbah]

f***ing hell, Sky are now even bringing up the decisions we got in the Playoff final to almost justify all the shit we have had this season, lead by non other than Roy Keane -

It has certainly been an eye opener to see who has our back and who does not. The media are doing a great job at adding fuel to our "us against them" mentality.
At this rate we will need to do our own rendition of Millwall's "No one likes us we don't care..."

Can't stand either of those two Sky shills

 

[valspoodle]

Really don't give a shit what others think, it was better in the bad old days.

We might have mighty athletes now, we might have stadiums more like palaces, but no one enjoys the game any more.

 

[Notcher]

f***ing hell, Sky are now even bringing up the decisions we got in the Playoff final to almost justify all the shit we have had this season, lead by non other than Roy Keane -

It has certainly been an eye opener to see who has our back and who does not. The media are doing a great job at adding fuel to our "us against them" mentality.
At this rate we will need to do our own rendition of Millwall's "No one likes us we don't care..."

I mentioned this on another thread. Also no context that this was twatted Steve Cook who had been to bed and was rolled out in front of the cameras. I think he also said Grealish was his party hero. It's nothing like a club gloating

 

[Redemption]

Millwall's "No one likes us we don't care..."

The Millwallification of this club and its fan base is one of the more regrettable aspects of the current situation.

Wallowing in being despised is pathetic. Its like self-respect is ebbing away.

 

[Flaggers]

Any update on listening to the VAR audio?

It's all gone...ahem...quiet...on that front...

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

f***ing hell, Sky are now even bringing up the decisions we got in the Playoff final to almost justify all the shit we have had this season, lead by non other than Roy Keane -

It has certainly been an eye opener to see who has our back and who does not. The media are doing a great job at adding fuel to our "us against them" mentality.

These people make a living from attention, likes and clicks, It's not about who has our back or not, it's about how many fans like yourself they can get to repost their vids.

 

[Redemption]

Yes, there must be plenty who can't afford it anymore, there must be quite a few who also think, bugger that I ain't paying those prices.

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But on the same basis there are many who will.

Every fan that gives up a season ticket because of cost will be replaced by one that can afford. There is no shortage of take up.

 

[Redemption]

Any update on listening to the VAR audio?

It's all gone...ahem...quiet...on that front...

Yeah. The club is going to peace talks. They'll hear it then.

Did you hear them say they want fans to hear it too? Me neither.

 

[Strummer]

But on the same basis there are many who will.

Every fan that gives up a season ticket because of cost will be replaced by one that can afford. There is no shortage of take up.

Ten thousand at least, according to the football club.

And even with the price hikes, I can’t see half of the current season ticket holders giving them up.

 

[Redemption]

So do you want the EPL to be competitive or stay the same preddictable outcome as now?

I've long been a reformist when it comes to football, but I'm also a realist.

The debate has to happen about whatvis that fans actually want and what does it mean in real terms.

I don't have any answers personally but I don't see people having too many answers either. I started a thread weeks ago about what changes people want but no really wants to offer anything.

And I suspect that's because we're so conditioned to retail offers we can consume.

And there is no mileage in 'the good old days.'