Promotion vs Being a Premier League club

[Omar Devone Little]

Been having a think this week about Forest and it got me wondering whether promotion is actually a good thing or not.

Now, the actual journey is amazing. If we do go up it'll involve another special CG night most likely and them finally a trip to the new Wembley and a win there. The memories and scenes would be unbelievable.

Then the issues potentially begin, its perhaps a negative thought process (I'd say realistic) but the most likely scenario if we went up is that we'd be fighting for our lives, dealing with glory supporters and day trippers, being hammered by big clubs like they're swatting away an irritating insect. Marinades then becomes obsessed with being a PL team so bins off Cooper if we're struggling to bring in Allardyce and a load of over paid experienced players looking for a nice pay day. It's a closed shop up there and we'd be struggling to compete even with the likes of Brighton and Soton never mind City, Chelsea and Liverpool etc

I suppose what I'm trying to ask is, promotion is amazing but is being a top flight club nowadays?

 

[Trents]

None of us can see the future but one thing is certain, we'll never know unless we get there.

Worst case, we get a parachute payment when dropping back down.

 

[HBB]

I hear what you're saying but the scenario of us suddenly going mad and buying loads of overpriced mercenaries in a mad splurge is very unlikely - once upon a time maybe but its not what Dane and Cooper are about - I see us being much more like Brentford - unspectacular but ensuring we have a consolidation year. We weren't battered by Spurs, Leics or Liverpool recently and though a year in the PL is very different to a few FA Cup ties I think as a manager Cooper would handle the prospect of promotion very carefully.

It would certainly mean a crazy summer of purchases as we have a lot of loans to replace that might not be available to buy (Garner, Spence almost certainly not I'd have thought) but if nothing else we know that promotion brings the kind of cash that gives you a chance to build a proper club solid PL club and I think with EM's backing, some shrewd purchases etc we'd do better than the likes of Norwich and even Burnley.

 

[T.B.T.]

I think you need to give your head a bit of a wobble.

If we’re not in this to compete against the best of the best in English football, progress to the highest level possible and develop our players into world class professionals whilst at the same time re-raise the Nottingham Forest name on the world stage, invest in our stadium and surroundings welcoming elite clubs from around the country then why even bother?

Of course, promotion would lead to many emotions and probably a few disappointments but we deserve the chance. We’re ready for this.

 

[mysteryduck]

Being in the Prem would bring its own risks and disappointments, but what's the alternative to trying to succeed? Aim for a losing play off place every season? May as well disband the club if we don't want to be the best we can.
Leicester won the title and challenged for the top 4, why shouldn't we aim that high?

 

[Strummer]

There’s a lot of bumph spoken about „big clubs“ and historical „sleeping giants“ and stuff like that.

Forest, however, absolutely have the fanbase to support a top-flight club. Better than some of the yo-yo sides, or tinpot sides, who are there now, by virtue of nothing more than television money.

If they manage to get promoted - be it this season, next, or whenever, the current organisational structure seems a much better fit to establish the club in the top division, without going absolutely mad trying to compete with the Manchester clubs, the scousers, the Arsenal or Spurs - those sides are on a different financial planet, and Forest won’t be fighting directly against them, even though I’m confident they’d give a good account of themselves.

The level Forest would be pushing for would be Wolves, Brighton, Leicester, Villa, and the tinpot and yo-yo clubs like Norwich, Brentford, Fulham, Ballmouth and Burnley, and there, I see no reason Forest couldn’t compete at that level, and establish themselves as a decent mid-table side.

And you know what, I’d take that in a heartbeat.

 

[Otis Redding]

Yeah, f*** it, let's stay where we are.

I'm sure all of those younger fans who've never seen us at the top-table will appreciate it in the long run.

 

[Omar Devone Little]

I think you need to give your head a bit of a wobble.

If we’re not in this to compete against the best of the best in English football, progress to the highest level possible and develop our players into world class professionals whilst at the same time re-raise the Nottingham Forest name on the world stage, invest in our stadium and surroundings welcoming elite clubs from around the country then why even bother?

Of course, promotion would lead to many emotions and probably a few disappointments but we deserve the chance. We’re ready for this.

I just look at it from an entertainment perspective. This has been the best season to watch Forest in ages, winning games, playing good football with a likeable side. My fear is that the Premier League, should we get there, brings often the opposite, survival football, random foreign players with absolutely zero interest in being here other than getting a nice pay day, getting beat most weeks including some drubbings.

Is it possible to win the play offs and just stay at the top end of the Championship?

 

[Strummer]

I just look at it from an entertainment perspective. This has been the best season to watch Forest in ages, winning games, playing good football with a likeable side. My fear is that the Premier League, should we get there, brings often the opposite, survival football, random foreign players with absolutely zero interest in being here other than getting a nice pay day, getting beat most weeks including some drubbings.

Is it possible to win the play offs and just stay at the top end of the Championship?

The only thing I’d say to that is look at the performances against Leicester and the scousers in the FA Cup.

There is absolutely no reason why Forest couldn’t equal, or even surpass, those levels of performance if promoted.

Remember also, promotion is worth a minimum of £200m or something daft like that. Carefully invested into the squad, it would enable Forest to target upgrades at key positions when needed.

 

[Timothy Pope]

If we get there- I’d see the first season in the Premier as a mini league against the other promoted sides and perennial strugglers.
Should we survive then we should be looking to move to the mid-table league and build sustainably and carefully from there.


Sent from my rectum using poofinger

 

[congo_red_49]

I see us being much more like Brentford - unspectacular but ensuring we have a consolidation year. We weren't battered by Spurs, Leics or Liverpool recently and though a year in the PL is very different to a few FA Cup ties I think as a manager Cooper would handle the prospect of promotion very carefully.

I think you've nailed it here - as depressing as it is for those of us who remember our previous top tier teams, European glory etc...Football has moved on and the Brentford model is one we should aspire to, at least initially. Of course, they've been doing what they do for a much longer time than us and it's ingrained into their club, but they have probably reached their ceiling now. So, I see survival as being potentially more challenging for us to achieve - but also we have more scope to push on if we can.
I'm not under any illusion that, were we to be promoted this year, the challenge will be massive. But we don't know until we try.

 

[Flaggers]

We need the money.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

Lets be honest though globalisation has killed football in our country and Europe. So obviously for our financial health more than anything its vital we get promoted but it in the long term it will be more boring.

Some people say that we have better chance at winning cups and yes thats true but not a massively bigger chance. The top teams are cleaning up in Europe and England more regularly than they used to and they only way to compete now is to get bought by an oligarch or a country.

So I would take the prem but I wouldnt be dissapointed by being a yo yo side with a few constant years in the prem. I am more interested now more than ever that we make sure our finances are sound.

What I will also miss a lot is the midweek games and the extra 8 games. I dont know how football fans are content with less games in a season. Footballers get paid more than ever and squads are bigger than ever as fans we should expect more games. Its all becoming globalist and elitist to me.

 

[T.B.T.]

I just look at it from an entertainment perspective. This has been the best season to watch Forest in ages, winning games, playing good football with a likeable side. My fear is that the Premier League, should we get there, brings often the opposite, survival football, random foreign players with absolutely zero interest in being here other than getting a nice pay day, getting beat most weeks including some drubbings.

Is it possible to win the play offs and just stay at the top end of the Championship?

I think there’s a part within all of us that can identify with the way you feel but, for me, the opportunity to compete at the highest level top trumps everything.

I do not always associate entertainment with winning. The experience is what makes me a Forest supporter.

When we’re promoted (whenever that is) I still expect us to play good football with a likeable side and, hopefully, win a few more than we lose.
No one expects us to win the Premier League in our first year but stranger things have happened.

Buckle up and enjoy. Life’s too short.

 

[Omar Devone Little]

Lets be honest though globalisation has killed football in our country and Europe. So obviously for our financial health more than anything its vital we get promoted but it in the long term it will be more boring.

Some people say that we have better chance at winning cups and yes thats true but not a massively bigger chance. The top teams are cleaning up in Europe and England more regularly than they used to and they only way to compete now is to get bought by an oligarch or a country.

So I would take the prem but I wouldnt be dissapointed by being a yo yo side with a few constant years in the prem. I am more interested now more than ever that we make sure our finances are sound.

What I will also miss a lot is the midweek games and the extra 8 games. I dont know how football fans are content with less games in a season. Footballers get paid more than ever and squads are bigger than ever as fans we should expect more games. Its all becoming globalist and elitist to me.

Lots of good points there. I think this is a classic case of the 'fun being in the chase'.

I'd love us to go up and 'do a Leicester' but history and reality suggests we're fat more likely to be a yo-yo club or at best a club trying to simply survive each year.

 

[Bonalair]

The Championship is a better league than the Prem, no doubt. But as TBT says if we aren’t trying to be up there what’s the point. Definitely a poison chalice though

 

[Mr. Blonde]

We weren't battered by Spurs, Leics or Liverpool recently

You mean Arsenal, rather than Spurs surely? Last time we played them was under Psycho!

 

[Ashley]

If we are afraid what would happen if we had any sort of success such as getting promoted, then we might as well pack up and not bother.

The whole point of football (or any sport for that matter) is to try and be the best you can be and aim to be successful (however unlikely it may seem).

We've spent the majority of the last 23 years as either a boring midtable Championship club or lower anyway, why on earth would anyone want more of that?

 

[EmmersonForest4]

Lots of good points there. I think this is a classic case of the 'fun being in the chase'.

I'd love us to go up and 'do a Leicester' but history and reality suggests we're fat more likely to be a yo-yo club or at best a club trying to simply survive each year.

Exactly, just do a small excerise and count the amount of different clubs have won the european cup, fa cup and the top division in england since the prem started 30 years ago to the previous 30 years of the premier league.

Its just getting worse now and frankly boring. I much prefer 46 games to 38 games and I prefer a league to be more competitive. I know we need the money desperately but I struggle to see as a fan experience in the long term how it will be anymore fun for us.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

If we are afraid what would happen if we had any sort of success such as getting promoted, then we might as well pack up and not bother.

The whole point of football (or any sport for that matter) is to try and be the best you can be and aim to be successful (however unlikely it may seem).

We've spent the majority of the last 23 years as either a boring midtable Championship club or lower anyway, why on earth would anyone want more of that?

You are dead correct Ashley it is the point and I want Forest to win all the time so of course everyone wants this really however in the long term do you not think being a prem team between 8th and 17th and a small percentage increase in the chance in cups with less games to watch at tv times would be a more fun experience than the championship?

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

1st division is a corrupt cesspit full of plastic fans, vile greed ridden players/actors and agents, we all know that.

But in the modern game, it's the place to be unfortunately.

 

[Ashley]

You are dead correct Ashley it is the point and I want Forest to win all the time so of course everyone wants this really however in the long term do you not think being a prem team between 8th and 17th and a small percentage increase in the chance in cups with less games to watch at tv times would be a more fun experience than the championship?

The majority of the last 23 years have been crap, with us finishing midtable or lower. I don't see how finishing 8th to 17th in the Premier League is somehow less entertaining than finishing between 7th to 21st in the Championship.

This season has been entertaining, but it hasn't always been like this over the last 23 years. And it wouldn't take much for us to return to mediocrity (i.e. Dane Murphy getting poached by another club).

I'm sorry, but trying to spin losing to the likes of Man City and Liverpool as somehow being worse than being shithoused by the likes of Cardiff or Preston whilst finishing midtable or lower (the reality of most of the last 23 years) just feels like some bizarre mental gymnastics to me.

 

[Cloughie1975]

1st division is a corrupt cesspit full of plastic fans, vile greed ridden players/actors and agents, we all know that.

But in the modern game, it's the place to be unfortunately.

It’s always been the place to be,Ray-Clough described the 2nd Division as a ‘morgue’ when he arrived in 1975.
However,the current top flight is not as appealing these days in my view.
Should Forest ever gain promotion it’s more or less certain a high proportion of the games will be ‘turkey
shoots’ against sides with way higher resources-thereby consigning us to an annual relegation battle(even if we
don’t go straight down).Also,the ridiculous kick-off times to suit TV put me off.
The other danger is overspending and being left with an unmanageable wage bill when we return to the
Championship-that’s the fastest way to League 1 as Sunderland proved.
In summary,I think Forest will try and reach the Premier League,but should we get there,I’m not sure it’s the
land of milk and honey some clearly think.
The sad state of modern football,I’m afraid.

 

[EmmersonForest4]

The majority of the last 23 years have been crap, with us finishing midtable or lower. I don't see how finishing 8th to 17th in the Premier League is somehow less entertaining than finishing between 7th to 21st in the Championship.

This season has been entertaining, but it hasn't always been like this over the last 23 years. And it wouldn't take much for us to return to mediocrity (i.e. Dane Murphy getting poached by another club).

I'm sorry, but trying to spin losing to the likes of Man City and Liverpool as somehow being worse than being shithoused by the likes of Cardiff or Preston whilst finishing midtable or lower (the reality of most of the last 23 years) just feels like some bizarre mental gymnastics to me.

We have finished in the top 6 3 times now and a promotion campaign in league one. We have also had relegation scraps which we would have in the premier league. However the premier league in my view would be the championship for us without any chance of challenging at the top end whilst having less games to watch at shite times.

Yes playing City and Liverpool is a higher test but we will lose more than win. I don't think the quality in football will make up for the fact we would effectively give up any chance of challenging near the top of the table. I will also miss the extra games a lot to be honest and for the money footballers siphon from us and the clubs I think the 46 games is the least they could do.

 

[Haych]

We’re gonna win the f***er next season then add a third star the year after don’t you worry