Premiership Vs Championship

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

There's some good posts being made in the Joao Carvalho "greatest player EVER!! MUST PLAY at ALL costs!! Sack X manager if he doesn't and change all the team to accommodate him too!" thread about the nature of the Premiership, and so I thought there ought to be a separate thread for what is proving to be a very interesting discussion. So here it is

Personally, I agree that the claim that the Championship is a more physical League is an outdated one now. Don't get me wrong, I think the Championship is a bit sneakier and dirtier in some ways so there is a certain art to winning it still, but the Prem is just so chocca full of athletes now it's unreal.

Has the standard and style of the Prem taken you by shock this season?

Spoiler

PS Carvalho is shit

Spoiler

Jack Marriot would have made it tho

 

[JohhnyM]

I never want to see the Championship again.

Yes, it’s easier to get tickets, but that’s because it’s shit.

 

[Bonfy177]

I never want to see the Championship again.

Yes, it’s easier to get tickets, but that’s because it’s shit.

19 words ……enough said

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

Not shocked me, I think it's a step up obviously.

Plenty of 2cnd division teams would give many 1st division teams a right old game.

 

[Buckeye]

Somewhere in the Cooperverse last season's Forest side are still together and playing in the Premier League, and only by comparing the league positions of the two can we know

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

Not shocked me, I think it's a step up obviously.

Plenty of 2cnd division teams would give many 1st division teams a right old game.

One thing which has shocked me is just how divided the Prem is with it's own inner divisions.

The gap between bottom 8 and top 8 has always been something we've all been aware of, but flippingheck it really is like a whole other set of divisions inside itself.

 

[Cloughie1975]

Not shocked me, I think it's a step up obviously.

Plenty of 2cnd division teams would give many 1st division teams a right old game.

Maybe in a one-off cup game,Ray-but not over a full season without massive investment as the gap in
standards is so high (far superior to when we last visited in 1999).I would describe the difference similar to
playing County Championship Division 2 cricket (still a reasonable standard) opposed to Test Match level.
If we look back at the Clough glory era,it was possible to compete on gaining promotion without breaking
the bank-Forest came out of the 2nd Division and won the league (although highly unlikely even then) and
Wolves and Chelsea (also promoted) survived relatively comfortably without a spending spree.
The difference in pace,intensity,tactics,ball control and overall quality these days is phenomenal.

 

[Cloughie1975]

One thing which has shocked me is just how divided the Prem is with it's own inner divisions.

The gap between bottom 8 and top 8 has always been something we've all been aware of, but flippingheck it really is like a whole other set of divisions inside itself.

That’s true,Alf-but even some of the sides towards the bottom of the Premier League e.g Wolves,West Ham
and Leeds are a way higher standard than most of those we faced in the Championship last season.

 

[alabamared]

The thing that bothers me about the prem is that the metaphorical playing field is totally tilted in the favour of half a dozen clubs it is just like a larger version of the Scottish prem and how many years have we been criticizing that?
The rest of us are there just to make up the numbers.
The championship on the other hand is much more evenly balanced.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

That’s true,Alf-but even some of the sides towards the bottom of the Premier League e.g Wolves,West Ham
and Leeds are a way higher standard than most of those we faced in the Championship last season.

Oh agreed for sure. Football on the whole seems a lot more fragmented than it used to be.

 

[Professor Wolfgang Schnell BSc. PhD.]

Forest quite easily matched the opposition in the FA cup games against Arsenal and Leicester last season.

But the game against Liverpool was completely different due to the speed and accuracy that they could ping the ball around.

But not all prem teams play like Liverpool did in that game, and the ones that do mostly don't do it consistently.

 

[Quntib Hollox]

The thing that bothers me about the prem is that the metaphorical playing field is totally tilted in the favour of half a dozen clubs it is just like a larger version of the Scottish prem and how many years have we been criticizing that?
The rest of us are there just to make up the numbers.
The championship on the other hand is much more evenly balanced.

Chelsea,Liverpool,Spurs and to an extent Man U have all had wobbles this season though and the likes of Fulham,Brentford and maybe Brighton have shown you can bridge the gap if you’re well organised.

 

[alabamared]

Chelsea,Liverpool,Spurs and to an extent Man U have all had wobbles this season though and the likes of Fulham,Brentford and maybe Brighton have shown you can bridge the gap if you’re well organised.

It's not about one season if you look over the history apart from the odd blip it has been dominated by a select few teams.

 

[Rockabilly]

There's some good posts being made in the Joao Carvalho "greatest player EVER!! MUST PLAY at ALL costs!! Sack X manager if he doesn't and change all the team to accommodate him too!" thread about the nature of the Premiership, and so I thought there ought to be a separate thread for what is proving to be a very interesting discussion. So here it is

Personally, I agree that the claim that the Championship is a more physical League is an outdated one now. Don't get me wrong, I think the Championship is a bit sneakier and dirtier in some ways so there is a certain art to winning it still, but the Prem is just so chocca full of athletes now it's unreal.

Has the standard and style of the Prem taken you by shock this season?

Spoiler

PS Carvalho is shit

Spoiler

Jack Marriot would have made it tho

I hit the spoiler button!

 

[Steve B]

I don’t think the championship is more physical than prem. first game we played at Newcastle they were outmuscling our players everywhere from the first minute onwards.
The gulf in standard has never been greater. I had a close up view of the way Man City tore us apart away from home. It took a while to sink in that one, we were hopelessly unprepared and had absolutely no answer to it. I’m not sure what my point is, what was the question again?

 

[lavelleuk]

I think the whole standard of football in general is hugely underrated now, I see people say the standard of the prem is shit, but truthfully every team is so well set up tactically, so much work into opponents and everyone now is so quick, strong and fit.

I watched a program the other day on sky out of boredom showing off Bergkamp and all the ex pros calling him a legend

the clips were him controlling a long ball in 15-20 yards of space and commentators talking about the insane technique. Next clip would be a a great pass, but again he'd be stood in 10 yards of space with time to pick it out

These days guys do that stuff and it's so mundane commentators don't even mention it. I saw Bernardo Silva get the ball smashed at his shins from 10 yards away the other week - he someone got the ball under control on the turn and ran at the defenders with just one touch. Commentator didn't even mention it. Even guys like Worrall sometimes hit 50-60 yards passes to wingers and commentators don't even stop talking to mention it

Wolves are one of the worst sides in the division, with Portugal and Mexico internationals. Everton centre backs are two guys recently getting in the England team, with a recent England striker up front and hundreds of millions of investment, they're one of the worst teams in the division too.

I remember again when younger people would say sometimes the top matches wouldn't be the best entertainment as the top players cancel each other out, now when that happens people just call everyone crap rather than appreciating what it takes to stop the other team.

Zidane is one of the greatest players of all time - as an attacking mid he averaged around 6 league goals a season. If he were playing now Jamie Redknapp, Souness etc. would be saying how he doesn't score enough, cant be classed as world class until he adds more goals to his game etc because that is all pundits do now, find reasons to critisise

IMO.

Edit - just caught up with the Carvalho thread and seems most my points have already been made lol

 

[Rigler]

I would say on the whole the standard of football in the Championship is way higher than the Premiership, especially if you were to take Rangers and Celtic out of the equation.

Or did you mean Premier league??

 

[Chappers85]

I think the shocker for me as I said in the Wolves thread, was the off-the-ball stuff and movement. Players being better on the ball was to be expected, more technical, better footballers with the ball at their feet. But it's so much more than that. They're quicker, stronger, more agile and more intelligent. The way players read the game and their movement is bafflingly good. Formations seem to be more fluid too. There really is such a huge gulf in quality. You also have to concentrate a lot more even being a spectator. In the Championship you could look at your phone for 30 seconds during a lull because you knew nothing was happening anytime soon (it was either head tennis or slow passing from out the back). I did that the other night and nearly missed the MGW shot from outside the box in the beginning of the second half.

I never really got why a player like Andy Reid didn't really get enough game time in the Premier League, as for me he's the most intelligent and technically best footballer we've had over the last 20 years. I always assumed he didn't work hard enough when he was younger, which may be true to some extent. However, now I just think he didn't and never could have had the physical attributes to compete in that league at the top level (and that's 15+ years ago).

 

[Raymondo Ponte']

The movement is quite right, used to get so mad with loads of our players over the years, they used to pass it, and that was that, thinking they'd done their job, Angela Lansbury was a master at it.
I suppose that's down to coaching as well.

 

[sammy the snake]

In the prem, intensity, speed, transitions and pure 100% for 90 mins will just about ensure a team stays up providing the whole team plays that way. In the championship players can use their physicality to gain the edge, but also it's expected teams won't and can't have the ability to play for 90mins so you'll see the game swing one way or the other more often. Exception though, Look at Burnley, they've not once let their guard down this season and it's paying off for them.

Last season Forest we're learning how to win and win well. But even now don't have the same intensity as Wolves for instance.. the quality of their subs made sure they stepped up in the 2nd half. That's why Forest want to splash the cash, we're about 500million away from the kind of investment to be a top half prem club..it's mental.

 

[Huxley]

The Prem is probably one of, if the richest league in the world able to attract the best players and managers from all over the place so obviously it's going to be a step up from a league where most teams can barely afford their wage bills.


However, I've not enjoyed the prem nearly as much. Some games just aren't worth the time to even follow the result let alone watch it. And no, watching the worlds elite footballers spank Forest gives me no joy no matter the level of skill involved. The best we can hope for is to massively overspend like everyone else and duke it out for those precious places above the bottom three.

That said, I've enjoyed the rise of Yates, Worral and Johnson and Cooper's tactics and team building and I'll be watching when next we play some group of random foreign millionaires, and the next, and the next.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

The Prem is probably one of, if the richest league in the world able to attract the best players and managers from all over the place so obviously it's going to be a step up from a league where most teams can barely afford their wage bills.


However, I've not enjoyed the prem nearly as much. Some games just aren't worth the time to even follow the result let alone watch it. And no, watching the worlds elite footballers spank Forest gives me no joy no matter the level of skill involved. The best we can hope for is to massively overspend like everyone else and duke it out for those precious places above the bottom three.

That said, I've enjoyed the rise of Yates, Worral and Johnson and Cooper's tactics and team building and I'll be watching when next we play some group of random foreign millionaires, and the next, and the next.

Last season was great, but so many seasons in the Championship were utterly turgid.

I'd rather watch us get beat 10-0 by an "elite" side than ever watch us play route-one wankfest football like we did under Cotterill, McLeish, Hughton etc, and I really hated watching us against Man City, Arsenal and Man Utd this season, hated it.

 

[Rzar]

Aye I have loved watching us this season. Some games are a drag against those top top teams but every game has so much riding on it, it’s way better than the Championship because one win at this level feels as good as 5 in the league below.

 

[redforest]

There is a massive gulf between the premier league and the championship and the reason emphasises what we have been up against this season. Every premier league team has a squad of 25 players all of whom are better than your average championship player. A premier league first team player are the best going, let’s call them tier 1. The remaining players in the squad are the reserves and therefore tier 2 players. Players at premier league clubs who can’t get into the 25 man squad are generally loaned out to championship teams and are generally the better players in the championship (think Garner last season) these are the tier 3 players. Your average championship player is therefore a tier 4 player. So to comparing premier league to the championship is similar to comparing the old division 1 to division 4 - as I said a massive gulf which we have done incredibly well to even compete with a few on a level playing field

 

[JohhnyM]

The Prem is probably one of, if the richest league in the world able to attract the best players and managers from all over the place so obviously it's going to be a step up from a league where most teams can barely afford their wage bills.


However, I've not enjoyed the prem nearly as much. Some games just aren't worth the time to even follow the result let alone watch it. And no, watching the worlds elite footballers spank Forest gives me no joy no matter the level of skill involved. The best we can hope for is to massively overspend like everyone else and duke it out for those precious places above the bottom three.

That said, I've enjoyed the rise of Yates, Worral and Johnson and Cooper's tactics and team building and I'll be watching when next we play some group of random foreign millionaires, and the next, and the next.

Personally I think that watching us beat Liverpool is better than watching us beat Rotherham.

Losing 4-0 at home to Sheffield Wednesday is worse for me than losing 3-0 away to Manchester United.

Elite sport is about testing yourself against the best; that’s what we’re doing for the first time in a generation and not without success.

Accepting survival in the top league in world sport is a massive improvement on being in the Championship, whether you get to win games against the likes of Rotherham or not.