Our Garry....

[Otis Redding]

Please don't get get me wrong. I loved watching the bloke during his first spell with us; he was brave, unselfish and in many ways the complete centre-forward; thoroughly deserving of far more credit than he was given at the time by observers from beyond this part of the world. In fact, the selfless, lung-bursting effort he put in for the team as a the lone, isolated striker that night in Madrid should feature prominently in NFFC folklore.

He was never going to reproduce that during his second spell following his travails at Old Trafford, and especially after sustaining a nasty back injury that restricted his mobility thereafter. But, as reliable as ever, he still gave admirable service for us as the club was going through a transitional period. On top of that, he's a decent fella too, like most of his peers, being at all times amiable and very approachable. However......if there's a more uninformed/misinformed/ignorant-of-the-facts commentator on Forest-related matters currently in the media, I genuinely despair for them!

Garry's latest pearl of wisdom in his Post column is that "the embargo will deter top players from signing for Forest"......talk about stating the absolutelyfookin' obvious Gaz!!

Suspecting that this might be yet another of the Post's long list of misleading headlines, I checked the online piece and yes, they are his words. As I'm not sure whether my ire should be aimed towards Birtles for saying this, Paul Taylor for ghost-writing his words exactly or the sports editor for approving them going into print I decided to air it on here.

 

[CloughyForEngland]

You get what he is trying to say here don't you...

 

[Otis Redding]

You get what he is trying to say here don't you...

If it's something I don't already know, please feel free to enlighten me.

 

[Alf-engelos Mindminackers]

You know the score with most stuff printed in that rag Otis.

 

[Redemption]

Tails: What do you think about Forest January dealings?
Birts: the embargo will deter top players from signing for Forest
Tails . o ( this paper writes itself )

 

['77 Red]

He's forgetting the D factor. Whatever Dougie says to them to come here for a few pennies is working. Just who will he sign when he can promise them a futbullers wage?

 

[stockers]

The only articles I read on the post website now are those written by fans.. The amount of shit ex player write is untrue... Having said that being asked to rehash the same thing three times a week must be hard.. There obsession with signing players is so comical especially when you look at both the finances and results of that stupid agenda..

 

[Steve Stone's Mullet]

He is one of the worst commentators about on tv.

He does two things, he states the absolute obvious, and he moans and moans about mistakes or what a player/referee should have done with the benefit of about 4 replays.

 

[Carlos]

f***ing terrible writer.

 

[CloughyForEngland]

If it's something I don't already know, please feel free to enlighten me.

I thought the point he is making, aside from the obvious fact that we can't sign anyone, is that the negative publicity around the embargo and the fact that we are run by toddlers will deter people from taking us seriously and joining us.

 

[tropix]

Players don't give a damn who they sign for as long as the money is right, so I'd have disagree with the original point.

The reason the articles scrape the barrel is because there's naff all to report on. Hardly worth getting your knickers in a twist

 

[Otis Redding]

You know the score with most stuff printed in that rag Otis.

Of course, you're right Alf, and 99% of the time this sort space-filling nonsense just washes over me when I see it. It's just that I saw this written in 6" high capital letters on one of those NEP A-boards outside my local newsagent, as though it was some sort of exclusive headline, as opposed to a snippet of Garry's deep thinking.

I thought the point he is making, aside from the obvious fact that we can't sign anyone, is that the negative publicity around the embargo and the fact that we are run by toddlers will deter people from taking us seriously and joining us.

I think you might be according GB a little too much credit if you feel he's stating anything other than the obvious. We all have our differing opinions on how the club is, or isn't, run, but if we do, hopefully, emerge from the embargo during the summer, I'd argue that the wages on offer will be the determining factor, as 77Red alluded to earlier.

 

[incapable hulk]

Players don't give a damn who they sign for as long as the money is right, so I'd have disagree with the original point.

Aye and the money we can offer compared to most second division clubs is still pretty good.

The average championship wage was £486000 which is less than £10,000 a week. So it's not like we are paupers who can only pay offer a pittance.
Obviously there will be clubs who pay way more than that, and clubs who pay much less, but it's not an insignificant amount or huge barrier to attracting decent players for this level of football.

 

[Redemption]

Aye and the money we can offer compared to most second division clubs is still pretty good.

The average championship wage was £486000 which is less than £10,000 a week. So it's not like we are paupers who can only pay offer a pittance.
Obviously there will be clubs who pay way more than that, and clubs who pay much less, but it's not an insignificant amount or huge barrier to attracting decent players for this level of football.

Is there any correlation with relegation/position/promotion and wages paid?

 

[incapable hulk]

Is there any correlation with relegation/position/promotion and wages paid?

No idea just looked up the average championship wage and that was what came up as of the end of 2014.

Obviously clubs coming down will have players on much higher premier league salaries which skew the average to some extent.

With regards to correlation to promotion and position, I'd be interested to see what it is because ourselves, Blackburn, Cardiff,Fulham l, Bolton and Reading amongst others have all had a large wage bills yet routinely finished mid table or lower.

The highest salary bill in the championship at QPR who are probably going to finish outside of the playoff. Hulls is pretty large and they are up there whilst Wigan had a big wage bill and still went down.

There will be anomalies at either end of the scale and it would interesting to see how it generally pans out.

Premier league players earn an average salary of £44,000 a week which is a lot but that is skewed by the amount of players at the big clubs earning way more than that, for example Rooney earning potentially around £300,000 a week.

It just does not seem that £10,000 a week is the giant barrier it is often portrayed as in bringing decent players to the club, nor does it mean we can only scrape the bottom of the barrel & bring in poor players (we've seen dougies excellent recruitment at work-these aren't bad players). Where it kicks in most is regards to managing squad places and also not being to spend transfer fees.

 

[Redemption]

Here's the total bill data for 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...p-club-accounts-profit-loss-and-the-wage-bill

If I can find squad sizes for these teams

I'll create a charts to show it...

 

[incapable hulk]

Here's the total bill data for 2014 http://www.theguardian.com/news/dat...p-club-accounts-profit-loss-and-the-wage-bill

If I can find squad sizes for these teams

I'll create a charts to show it...

Cool, I look forward to it

I was only grabbing numbers from a couple of articles, so there was no science behind it

 

[Strummer]

I tend to think that whilst £10k a week might lock a club out of the (over-priced) English player market, there is plenty of value to be had in Europe, as we have proved this season.

 

[incapable hulk]

I tend to think that whilst £10k a week might lock a club out of the (over-priced) English player market, there is plenty of value to be had in Europe, as we have proved this season.

Yeah, Dougie has done a very good job in identifying not one, but two excellent left backs!

It's miraculous really

 

[Redemption]

Cool, I look forward to it

I was only grabbing numbers from a couple of articles, so there was no science behind it

I'm using statistics. There's no science behind that either

 

[Redemption]

I suspect the position where £10k is an issue, both in England and Europe is for goal-scoring forwards.

 

[valspoodle]

Perhaps it's not the 10k wage limit, but getting quality players for free. I would expect most players out on loan or on a free transfer would snap up that wage, but players being pushed out of their clubs for any reason possibly are not those we want.

 

[Otis Redding]

No idea just looked up the average championship wage and that was what came up as of the end of 2014.

Obviously clubs coming down will have players on much higher premier league salaries which skew the average to some extent.

With regards to correlation to promotion and position, I'd be interested to see what it is because ourselves, Blackburn, Cardiff,Fulham l, Bolton and Reading amongst others have all had a large wage bills yet routinely finished mid table or lower.

The highest salary bill in the championship at QPR who are probably going to finish outside of the playoff. Hulls is pretty large and they are up there whilst Wigan had a big wage bill and still went down.

There will be anomalies at either end of the scale and it would interesting to see how it generally pans out.

Premier league players earn an average salary of £44,000 a week which is a lot but that is skewed by the amount of players at the big clubs earning way more than that, for example Rooney earning potentially around £300,000 a week.

It just does not seem that £10,000 a week is the giant barrier it is often portrayed as in bringing decent players to the club, nor does it mean we can only scrape the bottom of the barrel & bring in poor players (we've seen dougies excellent recruitment at work-these aren't bad players). Where it kicks in most is regards to managing squad places and also not being to spend transfer fees.

You've ably demonstrated that Garry's claim, if it is (which, as I've said, I seriously doubt) about the long-term consequence of the embargo, is not based on any research whatsoever.

 

[incapable hulk]

I suspect the position where £10k is an issue, both in England and Europe is for goal-scoring forwards.

Very true, but then if you are in an embargo chances are you are not planning to charge away with the title, and it isn't the only way to score goals.

Interestingly, only 5 of the 10 teams above us have had strikers who have scored more goals than Oliviera so far this season - which suggests it isn't solely the lack of a goal scoring forward that sees us where we are.

Our midfielders have struggled to find the chip in with goals all season, which has held us back as well as the lack of a goal machine. Mendes in particular has fluffed some incredible chances

 

[incapable hulk]

You've ably demonstrated that Garry's claim, if it is (which, as I've said, I seriously doubt) about the long-term consequence of the embargo, is not based on any research whatsoever.

Yeah, in terms of loans and free transfers you can still put together a reasonably competitive squad for at least the season if you have a good scouting network and also have a fairly strong squad already in place.

Clearly you are limited by not being able to pay a fee, or fully compete with clubs offering more than the 10k but it shows again just how good Freedman has been at identifying players and situations favourable to us getting them, like Oliviera being on his way to Valencia but not being able to get the deal done in time for whatever reason.

Encouraging stuff.