I know we take the michael out of agent Clough but i can't help wondering that with the money Doughty and Fawaz have thrown at the club what kind of job would he have done at Forest. I dont know the figures but the managers we,ve had since Nigel has been in management must have had a fortune to spend in comparison to his budgets and yet his team still sits a few points and positions below us Thoughts please.
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Nigel as Forest manager?
- Thread starter OLDMANRED
- Start date
Ravi
Upper Decker
I thought he looked good wearing a red top with a number 9 on the FLS last night.
Other than that I don't rate him much as a manager. If you give any manager nearly five years to build a squad, that team would at least have stability and a team cohesion, which is Derby's big strength. His team's have finished about where you'd expect given his spending. He's steady enough but nothing outstanding.
Other than that I don't rate him much as a manager. If you give any manager nearly five years to build a squad, that team would at least have stability and a team cohesion, which is Derby's big strength. His team's have finished about where you'd expect given his spending. He's steady enough but nothing outstanding.
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Sometimes it's easier for managers to not have the money or expectation and the bring through younger players and 'bargains'. If he had been here with the money available, it would be a completely different story.
For what it's worth, he's made a hell of a lot of dud signings too.
For what it's worth, he's made a hell of a lot of dud signings too.
Trickie Trees
Stuart Pearce
He's spent a decent amount of money in his time. His record at Burton and Derby has been very average. That sums him up as a manager. Very average. He has only survived as long as he has because Derby had to try and live within their means after spunking money left right and centre. The expectation is starting to grow now so I think he could be in danger of the sack this season if he doesn't sort out their home form and at least put in a strong challenge for the play offs.
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
Firstly, it's a total myth than NLN hasn't spent anything - over the past 3 years he's spent an avaerage of £2.4m/year - not loads by any means, but they've never finished higher than 10th in all that time - that's underachieving for that spend.
Secondly for me NLN's just not a manager. That's not saying he's not got various aspects to him which are useful and which do a job, but over the past few years how many player & dressing room fallouts has there been at Derby? It's like every other season he's having to re-shuffle the pack because players can't get on.
I wouldn't say that he'd be a disaster, but we'd just tick over and flirt with relegation like we did for most of the Doughty/Arthur days IMO.
Secondly for me NLN's just not a manager. That's not saying he's not got various aspects to him which are useful and which do a job, but over the past few years how many player & dressing room fallouts has there been at Derby? It's like every other season he's having to re-shuffle the pack because players can't get on.
I wouldn't say that he'd be a disaster, but we'd just tick over and flirt with relegation like we did for most of the Doughty/Arthur days IMO.
Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
Though he would've got the job for no reason other than his name (as was undoubtedly the case with his current employers), the only certainty is that he would've been afforded a little more patience from the fanbase than the likes of Megson and Calderwood.
As for the outcome? I tend to agree with Alf's conclusion above.
As for the outcome? I tend to agree with Alf's conclusion above.
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Kjetil Osvold's Cat
Kingsley Black
I always thought he would've done well and played with a similar style to his dad (if with less success at the top level). Not so sure though now based on how he's done at Derby (ok, but not spectacular and not renowned as a passing side to any great extent - I was reading a Derby thread the other day on that topic and the conclusion seemed to be that they did play some football but it was safety first and they played from the second ball a lot rather than building from the back).
U
UndisclosedFee
Guest
Agree with this. Bizarrely though, having been Derby manager, and acting a tw*t towards Forest, he would now probably be given less patience by the fans than he would have been if he had been manager at any other club.
Senior Flange Technician
Andy!
Hang on. Did/have we ever just ticked over for the last 10+ years? I'm sure we've been at one end or the other. Exciting
.
TheDudeII
John Robertson
Get him in. He's the man to take us up and do it with a bit of class. He'll talk to Chippers after the game too. I'll email the club now and tweet Fawaz that we want Nice Guy Nigel.
Captain Sinister
Senior doom Monger
'T ain't gonna happen...
Or is it?
Or is it?
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If he can get them top 6 this season then his time there can be viewed a success, the amount of chaff he has cleared off the wage bill, partly down to Davies but Jewell too, it was going to take time.
But now attendances are dropping there like most teams who come down, if if doesn't happen again soon for them if won't.
I think they will do well this season. Maybe we can give him a call in a couple years time, our wage bill must be eye watering.
But now attendances are dropping there like most teams who come down, if if doesn't happen again soon for them if won't.
I think they will do well this season. Maybe we can give him a call in a couple years time, our wage bill must be eye watering.
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Senior Flange Technician
Andy!
How many years has he had and when did the last big earner leave?
kevin
Banned
Great manager
I hear Tyson was on a good wedge, nevermind Clough signed him.
Interesting read below, actually contradicts most of my opinion
Some level-headed opinions
http://dcfcfans.co.uk/topic/12568-when-did-we-accept-mediocrity/
Interesting read below, actually contradicts most of my opinion
Some level-headed opinions
http://dcfcfans.co.uk/topic/12568-when-did-we-accept-mediocrity/
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Ravi
Upper Decker
I hear Tyson was on a good wedge, nevermind Clough signed him.
Interesting read below, actually contradicts most of my opinion
http://dcfcfans.co.uk/topic/12568-when-did-we-accept-mediocrity/
It's funny to see some saying that he needs more time.
Five years to get them absolutely nowhere is the definition of mediocrity in football terms though.
No wonder their support is dwindling.
Trickie Trees
Stuart Pearce
It's funny to see some saying that he needs more time.
Five years to get them absolutely nowhere is the definition of mediocrity in football terms though.
No wonder their support is dwindling.
Loads of gaps when I watched the FL highlights. I thought there had been a bomb scare or something.
Ricochet
Jack Burkitt
Taking a team nowhere in 5 years is some achievement,suits me fine,if you chucked Nigel into the Trent he wouldn't sink or swim,his dad walked on water.
incapable hulk
Best served cold
It's funny to see some saying that he needs more time.
Five years to get them absolutely nowhere is the definition of mediocrity in football terms though.
No wonder their support is dwindling.
Agree with that. As with anything, it depends on the type of job. But if you look at the resources he's had compared with some of the clubs who have done far better - he has at best done a mediocre job.
Its not even that, that is his biggest failing IMO - its the terrible treatment of just about everybody.
People moan about Davies not doing interviews with local radio - but at least hes not going on there and having a pop at them, and being rude, which has is what Clough has done in the past.
Clough has fallen out with many players during his time at Derby, freezing them out and treating them really shabbily (was it Albrechtsen who said he essentially bullied him out of the club?)
Even the way he has behaved towards our fans, who have also given him stick to be fair, has been crappy. Its one thing to try and to make the fans of your new club support you, but to go out of your way to take swipes at the club who made you, and where you spent most of your career is mind boggling.
It almost seems like the pressure just got to him straight away, and he lost all class.
He reminds me of Joe Kinnear in the way he seems to take umbridge with any vaguely critical questions thrown his way.
Its a shame as he was one of my favourite players as a kid. He cant keep getting buy on having to cut a wage bill from 5/6 years ago...
If he did come back he would get my full support - but I cant see him doing anything other than a mediocre job
tropix
Steve Chettle
Did Billy ever get him back for that dead leg?
BryanRoy22
Ian Bowyer
I think we'd be in much the same position as Derby are. Mid-table every season.
Not that there's anything wrong with mid-table. It's just that after a couple of years you'd think at least improve a little.
Not that there's anything wrong with mid-table. It's just that after a couple of years you'd think at least improve a little.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
It's harsh to say Clough has had five years and done nothing.
For a start, he's only had four full seasons there, after joining in January. Secondly, that initial January to July period was nothing but firefighting for him, with the subsequent two seasons being about reducing overheads and making Derby stand on their own two feet.
He's had a couple of years now in which you could call the squad fully his, in which they've looked solid at times but always just short of the teams that end up going up.
For all our investment though, where are we? Davies did OK, but we still succumbed to play-off failure despite a much larger spend on transfer fees and wages. McClaren got a fair wedge of cash too which was pissed up the wall. SOD was steady and may have got us where we wanted to get to but wasn't given time, McLeish was useless and Davies again is a bit stop start. Alf earlier said Derby had spent the equivilent of £2.4m a season under Clough. No idea if that's true (and is that net?), but even if it is, we almost spent the same Derby have spent in four years that Davies did in his first season alone, and again under SOD last year, and again under Davies this year. Derby may have spent £10m but I dread to think what we've spent in the last five years.
There are of course clubs who manage to achieve brilliantly given lack of resources. Blackpool's flirt with the top flight came out of nowhere and Swansea's ascent was well managed, if not well funded. The latter have certainly made a name for themselves, but generally, the teams that achieve in this division, the teams who find themselves promoted or at least fighting the play-offs, are the teams who are cash rich. Newcastle, WBA, Southampton, Cardiff, Leicester, Reading, QPR, Us etc. All of which have spent to achieve. Derby simply do not have the financial clout to match such teams.
I look at Clough's derby and think mediocrity, but in all fairness, they're a settled side with which a few additions or a good run could see them back to the top flight, without the fluttering of money other clubs get through. I look at us and I don't really see much better. We're alright, but we often flatter to deceive. For all our names in the starting 11, for all our transfer activity and close finishes under Davies, we are present a top six team and not much else.
Clough may not be working a miracle but he wouldn't get the criticism from posters on here if he wasn't manager of Derby County.
For a start, he's only had four full seasons there, after joining in January. Secondly, that initial January to July period was nothing but firefighting for him, with the subsequent two seasons being about reducing overheads and making Derby stand on their own two feet.
He's had a couple of years now in which you could call the squad fully his, in which they've looked solid at times but always just short of the teams that end up going up.
For all our investment though, where are we? Davies did OK, but we still succumbed to play-off failure despite a much larger spend on transfer fees and wages. McClaren got a fair wedge of cash too which was pissed up the wall. SOD was steady and may have got us where we wanted to get to but wasn't given time, McLeish was useless and Davies again is a bit stop start. Alf earlier said Derby had spent the equivilent of £2.4m a season under Clough. No idea if that's true (and is that net?), but even if it is, we almost spent the same Derby have spent in four years that Davies did in his first season alone, and again under SOD last year, and again under Davies this year. Derby may have spent £10m but I dread to think what we've spent in the last five years.
There are of course clubs who manage to achieve brilliantly given lack of resources. Blackpool's flirt with the top flight came out of nowhere and Swansea's ascent was well managed, if not well funded. The latter have certainly made a name for themselves, but generally, the teams that achieve in this division, the teams who find themselves promoted or at least fighting the play-offs, are the teams who are cash rich. Newcastle, WBA, Southampton, Cardiff, Leicester, Reading, QPR, Us etc. All of which have spent to achieve. Derby simply do not have the financial clout to match such teams.
I look at Clough's derby and think mediocrity, but in all fairness, they're a settled side with which a few additions or a good run could see them back to the top flight, without the fluttering of money other clubs get through. I look at us and I don't really see much better. We're alright, but we often flatter to deceive. For all our names in the starting 11, for all our transfer activity and close finishes under Davies, we are present a top six team and not much else.
Clough may not be working a miracle but he wouldn't get the criticism from posters on here if he wasn't manager of Derby County.
Kjetil Osvold's Cat
Kingsley Black
I remember David Platt doing that last season - I know as a Forest fan I should/could have taken a disliking to him before then for his Forest team underachieving
. Everyone gets stroppy or makes errors of judgment anyway, but Platt (even though I can't remember the details) was more than a bit annoying to listen to as he ranted at the interviewer for no good reason as far as I remember on that occasion. Man City were having a hard time of things though I suppose (weird that 2nd in the league is now a let-down for them - I guess Fawaz's investment brings similar pressures for Forest in this league although they'd already be there because of the Club's history and 'rightful place' in the top flight playing good football).
Kjetil Osvold's Cat
Kingsley Black
I think Clough at Forest would actually need a number 9 linkman like himself if it was to work - somebody to knit things together and add a bit of class to proceedings and bring the best out of team-mates.
The thing with the NLN nickname though is how would we react if Derby fans had called some of ex-players NLB, NLD, NLW, NLC (non-league Birtles, Davenport, Woan, Crosby)
The thing with the NLN nickname though is how would we react if Derby fans had called some of ex-players NLB, NLD, NLW, NLC (non-league Birtles, Davenport, Woan, Crosby)
TheDudeII
John Robertson
Hoof-Ball-Megson