Ashley
Steve Chettle
Assuming Man City don't get burned by FFP (I think they'll win their case), they almost certainly will.
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Man City Fans - Post Match Comments - RIP Calvin Plummer
- Thread starter eezzeetiger
- Start date
Quntib Hollox
Jack Armstrong
Leicester managed it so all bets are off.
Ashley
Steve Chettle
That was a complete, unplanned one off rather than part of some great strategy Leicester were working towards though. The chances of anyone else doing that again anytime soon are next to zero.
Captain Sinister
Senior doom Monger
To break into the top 4 you need to have an owner who is an oil-rich foreign government.
Captain Sinister
Senior doom Monger
Fixed that for you.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Meh, same thing. If we stay up we'll have bought our PL status.
Reality is modern-day football is money driven, can't escape it.
The fireworks were unbelievably loud last Saturday, like a fecking war zone
Haych
John Robertson
I love how the fireworks rattle every other team.
Hopefully next season we draw Huddersfield in the cup, batter them and then have a massive fireworks display ready to go for our Yorkshire friends.
Hopefully next season we draw Huddersfield in the cup, batter them and then have a massive fireworks display ready to go for our Yorkshire friends.
Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
FTFY Captain.
Berkshire Red
Jack Armstrong
No chance, they'll be out before we even enter the competition.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
Disagreed.
It's very much possible to do it by simply winning football matches and winning enough to finish ahead of everyone else.
Leics was a one off, but the fact they did it after only just staying up meant that it is possible.
That year they had the benefit of a very settled side with some absolute top players at their peaks - Schmeichel, Huth, Morgan, Kante, Mahrez, Vardy - and were able to play all of them for most of the season. They kept their winning habit going for the season and won enough to get the title. ]
The top 6 sides are beatable even if you aren't very good yourself - you have to look at the fact we have drawn with City and Chelsea and beaten Liverpool, Some of the teams below us have had decent results against them as well, if you execute the game plan you stand a chance.
Leics were also helped by Mourinho being a 2 season wonder pretty much anywhere and being out of his usual time to do well, so they were bad for most of the season when they probably had the best team. But you would have expected one of the London sides or Manchester City/Utd to step up but then Spurs always seem to flatter to deceive when it matters, City can be hit and miss, Liverpool didn't have VAR yet, and Man U seem to have only now come out of the post-Fergie hangover so Leics were good enough to get better results than all of them.
And Newcastle have showed this season that if you have the right manager and invest your resources wisely then you can go from relegation candidates one season to top four the next. If they keep Eddie Howe they will keep getting better too.
I think Marinakis is here for the big time and wants Forest competing at the top table again, he will invest what he can to ensure it happens. Like Newcastle we have a good manager who will only keep improving us and like Leics we have the core of a good side - when everyone is fit. There is no reason why we can't continue to kick on.
Quntib Hollox
Jack Armstrong
A year ago if you said we’d be beating Arsenal, Liverpool, Leicester (twice), Spurs, West Ham, Leeds. Drawing with Chelsea and Man City everyone on here would be saying no chance, me included, but it’s happened.
Ashley
Steve Chettle
Leicester wasn't planned in the slightest though, if you asked their fans at the start of that season if they'd take a midtable finish then every Leicester fan would have snapped your hand off. Without wanting to devalue what they achieved, it was one of those seasons where everything went right for them, and most of the Sky Six had poor seasons. Its not really a blueprint to follow as far winning a title is concerned, because that team doesn't win the title in almost any other year.
As for Newcastle, it basically took a buyout from the Saudi Arabian government to challenge the top 4. They have far more resources/financial muscle than Forestand Marinakis do.
Anyone hoping Forest will bother the top 4 anytime soon is going to be disappointed. Its not even a remotely realistic aim unless we somehow get a Man City/Newcastle style take over coupled with a severe relaxing or abolishing of FFP rules.
Eddie Yates
Steve Chettle
EM "hold me pint of Mythos"
Some interesting comments on FFP but with little evidence to support them.
The White Paper following the Fan Led Review will be out later this week. Legislation will be enacted before the next General Election with all-party support.
Key elements are financial management enforced by an Independent Regulator in accordance with a licensing system to play in the PL & EFL. New and tighter rules will be introduced for owners. In addition fairer distribution of broadcasting revenue throughout football will be required.
FFP (like VAR) is here to stay. The important issues are to ensure that the rules are clear and enforceable, and that there is integrity of Football competitions.
Of course wealthy clubs such as Manchester City will do their utmost to delay the implementation, and to frustrate enforcement. However, the new rules will be tighter and enforceable, with the threat of the removing the license to play in competitions.
Furthermore there are normal business and trading laws requiring directors to trade properly as a viable business.
Fair competition with sensible financial rules is essential if the game is to survive and thrive. Even then there will be huge differences in annual revenues - PL clubs with £600m pa more than three times than some clubs.
Take the East Midlands over the past twenty years or so -
NFFC
late 90’s, 2012 - selling players, limited wages but honouring debts
LCFC
early 2000s - huge debts not paid with no penalty
DCFC
2022 - huge debts not paid with points penalty
As a chartered accountant (since 1973) I have reviewed the accounts of Championship clubs - they are available on Companies House. Our current owner has a record of compliance with FFP, and has also written off accrued losses by conversion to share capital.
FFP are based on actual accounts but adjusted to take account of costs falling outside the calculation, but also with agreed write down of player acquisition costs. It’s not based on cash flow.
Anyone assuming that our club is non-compliant with FFP this season is guessing. They may be correct or not.
The White Paper following the Fan Led Review will be out later this week. Legislation will be enacted before the next General Election with all-party support.
Key elements are financial management enforced by an Independent Regulator in accordance with a licensing system to play in the PL & EFL. New and tighter rules will be introduced for owners. In addition fairer distribution of broadcasting revenue throughout football will be required.
FFP (like VAR) is here to stay. The important issues are to ensure that the rules are clear and enforceable, and that there is integrity of Football competitions.
Of course wealthy clubs such as Manchester City will do their utmost to delay the implementation, and to frustrate enforcement. However, the new rules will be tighter and enforceable, with the threat of the removing the license to play in competitions.
Furthermore there are normal business and trading laws requiring directors to trade properly as a viable business.
Fair competition with sensible financial rules is essential if the game is to survive and thrive. Even then there will be huge differences in annual revenues - PL clubs with £600m pa more than three times than some clubs.
Take the East Midlands over the past twenty years or so -
NFFC
late 90’s, 2012 - selling players, limited wages but honouring debts
LCFC
early 2000s - huge debts not paid with no penalty
DCFC
2022 - huge debts not paid with points penalty
As a chartered accountant (since 1973) I have reviewed the accounts of Championship clubs - they are available on Companies House. Our current owner has a record of compliance with FFP, and has also written off accrued losses by conversion to share capital.
FFP are based on actual accounts but adjusted to take account of costs falling outside the calculation, but also with agreed write down of player acquisition costs. It’s not based on cash flow.
Anyone assuming that our club is non-compliant with FFP this season is guessing. They may be correct or not.
Redemption
One less gobshite...
To be clear, I did nit suggest were weren't complying with FFP.
My allegation, if you like, was about how we comply with FFP - intra club sales in particular and LTD conversion - and whether that indicates the Owner has a desire to spend as much as possible by using non-generalised means. You can only do intra-club sales if you own 2 clubs or more.
The speculative issue, for which there is no answer in the accounts, is whether risks would be taken with FFP to get the extra bit towards success. In the summer, the £140m Marinakis sanctioned was considered a necessary roll-of-the-dice.
As soon as your into that territory, there is always a compliance risk. As a chartered auditor, you will know that companies up and down the land take all kinds of financial compliance risks when rolling the dice, which is an essential part of business execution.
My allegation, if you like, was about how we comply with FFP - intra club sales in particular and LTD conversion - and whether that indicates the Owner has a desire to spend as much as possible by using non-generalised means. You can only do intra-club sales if you own 2 clubs or more.
The speculative issue, for which there is no answer in the accounts, is whether risks would be taken with FFP to get the extra bit towards success. In the summer, the £140m Marinakis sanctioned was considered a necessary roll-of-the-dice.
As soon as your into that territory, there is always a compliance risk. As a chartered auditor, you will know that companies up and down the land take all kinds of financial compliance risks when rolling the dice, which is an essential part of business execution.
Captain Sinister
Senior doom Monger
FFP calculations are so opaque as to be impossible for the majority of fans to understand, let alone compute which clubs are complying or not.
My comments weren’t aimed at you.
My understanding is that LTD conversion is no problem if the Club has complied with FFP - some owners do it, others don’t (including Brentford and Brighton surprisingly).
The inter club trading issue is interesting but involves different countries as no-one can own two English clubs.
Your point on compliance risk is valid (hence my comment that no one knows with certainty if we are FFP compliant or not this season). However, as with the rejection of the Mel Morris alternate approach to writing down player acquisition costs, we now have clarity on how those costs are calculated.
Joe Baker's Dog
Grenville Morris
I don't think any of us were surprised that City dominated possession. But as others have said history books will show that the score was 1-1. I thought some of their players - Grealish being one - were very mardy. If a decision went against them they stamped their feet much like toddlers do...Their fans were very quiet. Ours were fantastic. Steve Cooper always talks about everybody at the Club being together and you could see that especially when we scored. People didn't moan when we went ages without the ball. but ironically we scored a goal they'd have liked to score......19 passes followed by a tap in.