Forest Early History - sponsored by I‘m Red Till Dead

[Otis Redding]

Indeed so Nicola. There are others from Forest's more recent history like Billy Walker, Tommy Graham and Bobby McKinlay who really shouldn't be forgotten as true stalwarts.

How that is done to preserve their names within the fabric of NFFC alongside Clough, Taylor, Storey-Moore, Robertson, Bowyer, Nigel Clough, Pearce, Walker et al, will take more imagination and thought than I have.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

Indeed so Nicola. There are others from Forest's more recent history like Billy Walker, Tommy Graham and Bobby McKinlay who really shouldn't be forgotten as true stalwarts.

How that is done to preserve their names within the fabric of NFFC alongside Clough, Taylor, Storey-Moore, Robertson, Bowyer, Nigel Clough, Pearce, Walker et al, will take more imagination and thought than I have.

I posted in the City Ground thread almost a year ago about the Miracle Gates. I had mentioned initially that it would be a double gate with SWW and John McGovern holding up the European Cup which I saw as the representation of the club dreaming of being the best through to them achieving it. I also saw the details below which picked out people and events in our history.

I actually dreamt the gates some time ago and there was more to it, than just Sam and John.

Sam was on the left gate and John on the right with the cup held up between them. In the gap between them was the Forest logo. At the bottom of the right gate, just to John's right were the European cup players celebrating. Above them looking down and clapping were Clough and Taylor

On the left gate in the lop left corner were Harry Halam and Billy Walker. Billy had his hand up in a wave to Roy Dwight down below in a wheel chair surrounded by players from the 1898 and 1959 cup finals.

In an arch over the top of those gates was a frieze showing the evolution of grounds from the Recreation Ground to the City Ground so going from just a flag at the left edge with maybe a couple of people, then a rope in front of more spectators, next a corrugated roof over a rudimentary stand with forms to sit on, and then the more modern stands. Moving through it players of various eras in their kits of the time with motion blur between them ending up with Robbo kicking a cross over to the box. Above the frieze was the legend We Believe in Miracles and just above that in the arch The two stars for the European Cups.

I seem to recall that psycho was in there to somewhere with his post goal clenched hands scream too.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

(Nottingham Journal, Saturday, May 14, 1927)

THE LURE OF FIREWORKS.
HUGE CROWD ATTENDS TATTOO IN NOTTINGHAM.

THE SHOPPING WEEK’S BIGGEST DRAW.

What gathering of the clans there was on the Forest Football Club's ground last night! No Shopping Week event has caught the fancy of the public to a tithe of the extent that the Torchlight Tattoo, Firework Display, and Community Singing Assembly do.

For some three-quarters of an hour before the time of its commencement it was a case of standing in a queue in the Market Place in order to get a tram for Trent Bridge, and as the trams neared their terminus it was obvious that for everyone riding there were six foot bound for the same destination.

Not everyone. it seemed, had had the forethought to provide themselves with admission tickets to the ground, or even sought to do so. for hundreds of people took up vantage points along the parapet of Trent Bridge, and later, when the fireworks were In progress, the bridge was lined from one side to the other with stationary motor cars which were being used as grandstands for the owners and their friends.

The Community Singing.

Yet these hangers on to the fringe of the display missed the best of the fun - the twilight community singing. Thanks to the “Journal“ there was a song sheet for everyone, and thanks to the Rotary stalwart. Mr. Fred W. Gray, everyone knew when and what to sing. Loud speakers, scientifically dispersed around the playing field, made his slightest whisper echo like the murmur of an R.S.M. exhorting troops to “Pick ‘em up there."

The Army simile comes naturally enough to the point of the pencil when it has to be recorded that the great crowd assembled on the riverside ground, last night, sang with a will, such war time favourites as “Pack up your troubles,” “Tipperary," and the rest of them, and even the boom of bursting explosives was not lacking to complete the ensemble, for, half-way through the community singing, Messrs. Brocks, the firework experts, gave the crowd a taste of their daylight fireworks, ingenious contrivances which dropped grotesque inflated paper figures on the heads of the crowd.

As Trophies.

This part of the programme proved almost too successful, and had to be curtailed, large sections of the crowd bursting through the thin cordon of police on to the ground and fighting for the descending effigies in order to bear them away as trophies.

Full twilight had now come, and Mr. Gray, supported by the Clifton Colliery Band, was able to conduct the singing with an electric torch. As, in order to see the words, the crowd had to strike matches, or shine electric flash lamps on to their song sheets, the total effect was comparable to an energetic glow worm (your pardon. Mr, Gray!) conducting mixed choir of nightingales and fireflies!

Then, whilst Mr. Campbell Robertson and his Imps, were preparing for the tattoo behind the grand stand, came the fireworks proper. Those who have ever seen a “Brocks Benefit" at the Crystal Palace, know to what perfection the pyrotechnic art can be carried, but fireworks are very seldom seen in Nottingham and so there was a gasp of something like amazement when, almost at the outset of the display, two illuminated elephants, spouting cascades of golden rain out of their highly realistic trunks, commenced to walk across the Forest ground.

They were followed by Catherine wheels. volcanoes of coloured fire, glowing crowns, set pieces of many ingenious varieties and rockets by the score. The hundreds without, as well as the thousands within, the enclosure got the full benefit of these, as, rushing up into the night sky with a hiss and fiery trail they burst Into galaxies of stars of myriad colours.

Fascinating Tattoo.

Just as the fireworks thrilled, so did the military torchlight tattoo fascinate. After the last spark the first part of the firework display had flickered out, the crowd waited expectantly, meanwhile taking up the familiar time of Frothblowers’ Anthem, which died away as the torchbearers made their appearance at each end of the enclosure and converged to the centre of the ground on two columns of four abreast. Their appearance was the signal for a rousing cheer; which gave way to curiosity as the shining red and while torches formed themselves into line to await the signal from the director of ceremonies, Mr I. Campbell Robertson.

Conveniently, it was a dull night, thus adding lustre to the torches, which for all world looked like a huge cluster of well-grown crocuses in a stale of animation.

The whole tattoo was carried out with wonderful precision, the participants first dividing Into groups to form four separate wheels, then encircling the ground to meet again In the centre and form some other equally attractive design They subsequently formed one large rosette of red and white, and followed with the formation of the familiar words - "Empire Week," to the accompaniment of which the band struck up "Land of Hope and Glory,” and the crowd joined in with great gusto.

The tattoo was arranged on the lines of the R.A.F. tattoo at Wembley. The torch bearers were members of the Central Division of the Junior Imperial League and to Mr. Campbell Robertson and all concerned much credit is due for the performance given

The proceedings terminated with further display of fireworks.

The fireworkswou;d be along the lines of these - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w67AakRPfO8

There is a video of a parade at Nottingham's Empire Shopping Week here - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDL4WbAEk-A

Sadly there isn't a video of the fireworks in the ground.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

I hope you like stories like the above which aren't on the football or staff side of the clubs history.

I thought it was interesting to show how we were part of the community back then.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

This might be of interest. It comes from the report of the annual meeting of the Forest committee in June 1898, between us winning the FA Cup and Moving to the new City Ground.


THE NEW GROUND.

While the scrutators were engaged in counting the votes for the members of the new committee the Chairman spoke on the subject the new ground. He said they knew that it was the club's intention to make a much larger ground than the old one. The latter was only 2½ acres in extent, whilst the new one was six acres. A bank had been made on the far side from the bridge for the sixpenny seats which would probably hold some 12,000 people, and it was their intention to cover some part of this in. They had given out contracts for the erection of a pavilion on the opposite side, which was to held 3,000 people, and underneath which would be dressing-rooms, &c. There was also a space at the back for a very good running track. At the Trent Bridge end they were having to put up the old Arkwright Street stand. The other end was where thought they should have to stop. but it was probable that there accommodation would be provided for carriages. On Trent side, where would be the chief sixpenny entrance, there would he two gates, both to be used if necessary. The Corporation were widening the road down to the boathouse, and it was probable that in the future there would be a road 40 or 50 feet wide. If the public would only support them, he (the chairman) thought they would have a very much better time on that ground than they had had on the old City Ground. At the last meeting Mr. Clayton rechristened their ground, but they were reminded this new one was still in city. He might suggest that be called the Trentside Ground.

Mr. H. B. Clayton said did not propose that there should be any alteration in the name. He thought that in the previous change of names there had been a change of luck, and it was since the name was altered to the “City” Ground they had had the good fortune to win the English Cup. He did not think that under these circumstances anyone would wish to change the name again. He would like to say a word with regard to their victory. The 16th April, 1898, would be a red-letter day to the Forest Football Club. They had heard of Derby Day. In the future this should called the “Forest Day.” He hoped that next season they would win the League championship. He thought that this would be a far greater honour than even winning the English Cup. A great improvement the team had been brought about by strengthening the forward division.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

I came across this as I was looking for something else.

(Football Post, Saturday, October 28, 1972)

Clifton All Whites went to the top of the Senior Division I with a 3-1 victory over Players Colts. Both sides played some extremely good football but All Whites proved the better side with goals from Carl Raimond (2) and Garry Birtles.

Notes: It was the Senior Division I of the Notts Youth League I think.


I wonder what happend to Carl Raimond. He got twice the goals in the game that Birtles did. Perhaps there was money to be made from him too. :wink:

 

[Master Yates]

I came across this as I was looking for something else.

(Football Post, Saturday, October 28, 1972)

Clifton All Whites went to the top of the Senior Division I with a 3-1 victory over Players Colts. Both sides played some extremely good football but All Whites proved the better side with goals from Carl Raimond (2) and Garry Birtles.

Notes:It was the Senior Division I of the Notts Youth League I think.


I wonder what happend to Carl Raimond. He got twice the goals in the game that Birtles did. Perhaps there was money to be made from him too. :wink:

Didn’t Birtles start out at Forest as a left winger in the youth team?


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[I'm Red Till Dead]

Didn’t Birtles start out at Forest as a left winger in the youth team?


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It does say that on his Wikipedia page.

 

[BryanRoy]

Been trying to collect a list of oldest surviving Nottingham Forest players. If anyone can help to correct anything (Nicola or Otis) it would be great. Just those born before 1950 for now.

Older Miracle Men in Bold Red and influential (appearances (100+), performance, last surviving of a particular team or first of something + post playing contribution to Forest) Forest players in Bold.

For example.

1. Peter Higham is the oldest surviving player and also last key contributor of 1956/57 promotion team under Billy Walker
2. Jeff Whitefoot is the last survivor of our 1959 FA Cup winning team
3. Billy Cobb scored our first goal in Europe
4. David Pleat is our youngest ever goalscorer at 17 years/1 month/2 days
5. David Stainwright was our first youth player to sign apprenticeship forms


1. Peter Higham - 08/11/1930 - (1955 to 1958) - 68 appearances (21 goals)
2. Eric Jones - 12/10/1931 - (1955 to 1958) - 18 appearances (3 goals)
3. Peter Lay - 04/12/1931 - (1955) - 1 appearance
4. Jeff Whitefoot - 31/12/1933 - (1958 to 1967) - 285 appearances (7 goals)
5. Keith Turner - 09/04/1934 - (1954) - 1 appearance
6. Colin Booth - 30/12/1934 - (1959 to 1962) - 98 appearances (41 goals)
7. Edward Huddlestone - 29/09/1935 - (1956) - 1 appearance
8. Dennis Mochan - 12/12/1935 - (1963 to 1966) - 119 appearances (1 goal)
9. Ronald Farmer - 06/03/1936 - (1958) - 10 appearances
10. John Armstrong (GK) - 05/09/1936 - (1959 to 1962) - 23 appearances
11. Roy Banham - 30/10/1936 - (1955 to 1956) - 2 appearances
12. John Langford - 04/08/1937 - (1955) - 4 appearances
13. Peter Knight - 26/12/1937 - (1959) - 5 appearances
14. David Hollins (GK) - 04/02/1938 - (1970) - 9 appearances
15. Dave Hilley - 20/12/1938 - (1967 to 1971) - 86 appearances (17 goals)
16. John Barnwell - 24/12/1938 - (1964 to 1970) - 194 appearances (25 goals)
17. Gordon Marshall (GK) - 02/07/1939 - (1968 to 1969) - 7 appearances
18. Frank Wignall - 21/08/1939 - (1963 to 1968) - 178 appearances (53 goals)
19. Colin Addison - 18/05/1940 - (1961 to 1966) - 174 appearances (69 goals)
20. Billy Cobb - 29/09/1940 - (1960 to 1963) - 36 appearances (7 goals)
21. Geoff Vowden - 27/04/1941 - (1959 to 1964) - 107 appearances (45 goals)
22. Doug Fraser - 08/12/1941 - (1971 to 1973) - 96 appearances (4 goals)
23. Barry Wealthall - 01/05/1942 - (1960 to 1961) - 4 appearances
24. Flip Le Flem - 12/07/1942 - (1960 to 1964) - 146 appearances (20 goals)
25. Peter Grummitt (GK) - 19/08/1942 - (1960 to 1969) - 353 appearances
26. Terry Hennessey - 01/09/1942 - (1965 to 1970) - 185 appearances (6 goals)
27. Alan Hinton - 06/10/1942 - (1964 to 1967) - 116 appearances (24 goals)
28. John Parr (GK) - 23/11/1942 - (1963) - 1 appearance
29. John Winfield - 28/02/1943 - (1962 to 1974) - 412 appearances (5 goals)
30. Brian Grant - 10/05/1943 - (1961 to 1964) - 22 appearances
31. Mike Kear - 27/05/1943 - (1963 to 1967) - 26 appearances (5 goals)
32. Frank Clark - 09/09/1943 - (1975 to 1979) - 158 appearances (1 goal)
33. Jim Barron (GK) - 19/10/1943 - (1970 to 1974) - 181 appearances
34. Alan Hill (GK) - 30/11/1943 - (1969 to 1970) - 46 appearances
35. Henry Newton - 18/02/1944 - (1963 to 1970) - 317 appearances (19 goals)
36. Ronnie Rees - 04/04/1944 - (1969 to 1972) - 88 appearances (13 goals)
37. John Galley - 07/05/1944 - (1972 to 1974) - 43 appearances (8 goals)
38. David Wilson - 04/10/1944 - (1962 to 1966) - 11 appearances (1 goal)
39. Geoff Ball - 02/11/1944 - (1964 to 1967) - 4 appearances
40. David Pleat - 15/01/1945 - (1962 to 1964) - 6 appearances (1 goal)
41. Ian Storey-Moore - 17/01/1945 - (1963 to 1972) - 273 appearances (117 goals)
42. Barry Lyons - 14/03/1945 - (1966 to 1973) - 239 appearances (35 goals)
43. Jim Cargill (GK) - 22/09/1945 - (1964 to 1966) - 3 appearances
44. Peter Cormack - 17/07/1946 - (1970 to 1972) - 86 appearances (20 goals)
45. Sammy Chapman - 18/08/1946 - (1964 to 1977) - 414 appearances (22 goals)
46. John O'Hare - 24/09/1946 - (1975 to 1980) - 136 appearances (18 goals)
47. Paddy Greenwood - 17/10/1are - 24/09946 - (1974 to 1976) - 19 appearances
48. Tommy Jackson - 03/11/1946 - (1970 to 1975) - 91 appearances (6 goals)
49. Archie Gemmill - 24/03/1947 - (1977 to 1979) - 79 appearances (5 goals)
50. Barry McArthur - 04/05/1947 - (1965 to 1966) - 10 appearances (4 goals)
51. George Lyall - 04/05/1947 - (1972 to 1976) - 135 appearances (29 goals)
52. Colin Hall - 02/02/1948 - (1967 to 1970) - 32 appearances (2 goals)
53. David Stainwright - 13/06/1948 - (1966 to 1968) - 5 appearances (1 goal)
54. Liam O'Kane - 17/06/1948 - (1969 to 1976) - 221 appearances (1 goal)
55. Larry Lloyd - 06/10/1948 - (1976 to 1981) - 218 appearances (13 goals)
56. Neil Martin - 20/10/1948 - (1971 to 1975) - 138 appearances (34 goals)
57. Mick Harby (GK) - 07/11/1948 - (1968) - 3 appearances
58. Colin Todd - 12/12/1948 - (1982 to 1983) - 47 appearances
59. Stan Bowles - 24/12/1948 - (1979 to 1980) - 23 appearances (2 goals)
60. Eric Hulme (GK) - 14/01/1949 - (1971 to 1972) - 6 appearances
61. David Needham - 21/05/1949 - (1977 to 1982) - 119 appearances (13 goals)
62. Len Harris - 29/05/1949 - (1969) - 2 appearances
63. Peter Shilton (GK) - 18/09/1949 - (1977 to 1982) - 273 appearances
64. Paul Richardson - 25/10/1949 - (1968 to 1976) - 232 appearances (21 goals)
65. John McGovern - 28/10/1949 - (1975 to 1982) - 335 appearances (11 goals)
66. Barry Butlin - 09/11/1949 - (1974 to 1977) - 88 appearances (20 goals)

 

[BryanRoy]

Made me think of this reunion of old players in 2018 or so & wondered if some of the guys above would even have been invited or could be contacted. I see Barnsley have been giving out special edition shirts to former players but I don't know if there were any requirements or not.

Back: McGovern, Newton, McKenzie, Gunn, Plummer, Roy, Reid, Armstrong, Francis, Crosby

Middle: Withe, Bowyer, Hart, Birtles, Barrett, Chapman, Burns, Lee, Cohen, Bopp, Sutton, Metgod, O'Hare

Front: Barnwell, Bohinen, Hjelde, Lyttle, A.Gemmill, O'Kane, Storey-Moore, Clark, Stone, Carr, Robertson, Whitefoot, Clough

 

[Otis Redding]

Been trying to collect a list of oldest surviving Nottingham Forest players. If anyone can help to correct anything (Nicola or Otis) it would be great. Just those born before 1950 for now........

Blimey, you deserve a commendation for compiling that list Bryan. I certainly can't add to it.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

Been trying to collect a list of oldest surviving Nottingham Forest players. If anyone can help to correct anything (Nicola or Otis) it would be great. Just those born before 1950 for now.

Older Miracle Men in Bold Red and influential (appearances (100+), performance, last surviving of a particular team or first of something + post playing contribution to Forest) Forest players in Bold.

Sorry I can't help. I look for reports of players deaths rather than proof of life.

Quite a piece of research though.

 

[Cloughie1975]

Sorry I can't help. I look for reports of players deaths rather than proof of life.

Quite a piece of research though.

Proof of life has been difficult to ascertain for a fair few Forest players over the past 20 years.

 

[BryanRoy]

Thanks guys.

It isn't that impressive yet. I've been getting my database up and running for a number of things and this was one of them.

But these 'surviving' Forest players are only thanks to Wikipedia & Barryhugmansfootballers. Not wholly reliable.

That is why I was hoping even it was confirmed player deaths to remove some from the list.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

I'd forgotten that there were Hillsboroughesque problems at the game against Celtic in the UEFA Cup in 1983.

https://thecelticstar.com/nottingham-forest-v-celtic-the-most-frightening-thing-to-have-happened-to-me-at-a-match/

 

[Otis Redding]

I'd forgotten that there were Hillsboroughesque problems at the game against Celtic in the UEFA Cup in 1983.

https://thecelticstar.com/nottingham-forest-v-celtic-the-most-frightening-thing-to-have-happened-to-me-at-a-match/

That's an interesting piece Nicola.

It didn't help that many Celtic fans from all over the UK turned up without tickets, with a lot of them still managing to gain entry by doubling-up and/or climbing over turnstiles. As well as overcrowding the Bridgford End terrace, they were climbing the floodlights, and hundreds got into the then-Executive Stand seating areas, crowding the gangways.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

That's an interesting piece Nicola.

It didn't help that many Celtic fans from all over the UK turned up without tickets, with a lot of them still managing to gain entry by doubling-up and/or climbing over turnstiles. As well as overcrowding the Bridgford End terrace, they were climbing the floodlights, and hundreds got into the then-Executive Stand seating areas, crowding the gangways.

I'm sure they did, but there was also a mention of them throwing fivers at the people on the gates to let them in.

We were not squeaky clean around that time with our ticket sales. I have recently transcribed a couple of reports of Cloughie's ticket indiscretions. It was very sad to see on top of the bungs.s

 

[Otis Redding]

I'm sure they did, but there was also a mention of them throwing fivers at the people on the gates to let them in.

We were not squeaky clean around that time with our ticket sales. I have recently transcribed a couple of reports of Cloughie's ticket indiscretions. It was very sad to see on top of the bungs.s

I'd never dispute that certain aspects of the governance at NFFC was anything less than questionable back then, or indeed for some years after.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

Samnmy Chapman playing for the Colts in 1962

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

 

[Cloughie1975]

I'm sure they did, but there was also a mention of them throwing fivers at the people on the gates to let them in.

We were not squeaky clean around that time with our ticket sales. I have recently transcribed a couple of reports of Cloughie's ticket indiscretions. It was very sad to see on top of the bungs.s

There was a number of green and white scarves in the upper Executive Stand-for some strange reason a Forest
‘supporter’ decided to punch one of them in the face at the final whistle.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

As a reminder of the ticket prices of the time, here is an advertisement for the League Cup Replay game between Forest and Huddersfield. Both teams where in division 1 at the time (tier 1).

For the younger readers, a reminder that a shilling in 'old money' (1/-) is the same as 5p in 'new money,' so the 6/- charged for the terraces is 30p.

 

[I'm Red Till Dead]

An ad for Frank Wignall's car sales

Three months after the ad he was found guilty of selling a car which had been clocked by the dealer he had bought it from. An old MOT with the true mileage was in the glove box and he hadn't seen it. He was fined £500.

 

[Cloughie1975]

An ad for Frank Wignall's car sales

Three months after the ad he was found guilty of selling a car which had been clocked by the dealer he had bought it from. An old MOT with the true mileage was in the glove box and he hadn't seen it. He was fined £500.

I don’t suppose the modern footballer would need to worry about selling used cars.

 

[Otis Redding]

Quite frankly Cloughie, I doubt that a modern-day, top-level footballer would have even lowered himself to have even driven a used car.