Dean Bradley Henderson

[Rzar]

They spent the entire summer chasing him so clearly the injury wasn't an issue for us.

He didn't sign because we firstly wouldn't pay the money and then tried to kick the can down the road and get him on loan so we could pay next year, which United weren't keen on. We'd have probably paid what was necessary if we'd known Brennan was off.

We did a deal for Elanga in about 5 minutes.

It's obvious we wanted the player but not with the injury concerns, the only way we would take him is if we took him with a 25+ game obligation which would have proved he was over his injury concerns.

Thank f*** the club didn't buckle, the club deserve credit & especially Wilson. Decision was completely justified, I am sure you would be the first crying to everyone that'll listen what a stupid signing he was if he broke down in his first 18 minutes.

 

[Gyros Peter]

Somewhat ironic that after the iniury last night he might not have met United's three game clause.

Nice lad Hendo, feel for him, but looks like forest did the right thing.

 

[Monkman]

Why would we care about insisting on a loan-with-obligation-to-buy if it was due to injury worries? It doesn't make any sense. You either don't buy the player at all or you negotiate a significant discount on the purchase price to reflect the risk.

For the exact scenario that has played out. You can bet your life Palace wish they had negotiated a loan with an obligation after a certain number of matches after last night.

 

[congo_red_49]

Monkman is correct. The transfer doesn't become permanent from a books standpoint when the games trigger is reached, because the transfer window is shut at that point. The permanent fee can only officially be paid and confirmed when the transfer window is open regardless of the obligation.

However, I think there's some over-simplification going on here as to the reason for the loan-with-trigger-to-buy we pushed for. It's entirely plausible that there were multiple reasons for this - the-prove-you're-not-a-crock by playing X games nicely aligns with FFP concerns - so why can't it be both? People are capable of processing multiple factors.

 

[Gyros Peter]

Monkman is correct. The transfer doesn't become permanent from a books standpoint when the games trigger is reached, because the transfer window is shut at that point. The permanent fee can only officially be paid and confirmed when the transfer window is open regardless of the obligation.

However, I think there's some over-simplification going on here as to the reason for the loan-with-trigger-to-buy we pushed for. It's entirely plausible that there were multiple reasons for this - the-prove-you're-not-a-crock by playing X games nicely aligns with FFP concerns - so why can't it be both? People are capable of processing multiple factors.

Both does seem the most likely option - probably tied into the BJ transfer in that we wouldn't have done ourselves if the right fee hadn't come through for Brennan.

 

[congo_red_49]

For the exact scenario that has played out. You can bet your life Palace wish they had negotiated a loan with an obligation after a certain number of matches after last night.

Kind of wish we'd done a similar deal for Richards

 

[Rzar]

Monkman is correct. The transfer doesn't become permanent from a books standpoint when the games trigger is reached, because the transfer window is shut at that point. The permanent fee can only officially be paid and confirmed when the transfer window is open regardless of the obligation.

However, I think there's some over-simplification going on here as to the reason for the loan-with-trigger-to-buy we pushed for. It's entirely plausible that there were multiple reasons for this - the-prove-you're-not-a-crock by playing X games nicely aligns with FFP concerns - so why can't it be both? People are capable of processing multiple factors.

If it wasn't down to injury concerns & was down to FFP, we would have signed Henderson with a couple of game obligation like we have others. We wanted 20+ games & Man United didn't want to give it (because they probably knew). It was us being cautious.

Let's be real, money wasn't lacking this summer. We bid £25m on a defender on deadline day out of nowhere.

 

[GOBIAS]

It's sort of about budget.

It would have deferred the transfer past January and into 2023/2024 season, meaning impact FFP in that season not this, and also means cash-flow out is deferred to a point whereby there's (probably) an extra £100m+ in the coffers.

Worth remembering when the transfer collapsed we hadn't sold Brennan yet nor splurged on our deadline day signings.

I think the injury will definitely have driven the price down in our mind, at least in regard to bargaining with United. Also the x amount of games will have insured against this scenario.

There will definitely have been FFP considerations too.

 

[Gyros Peter]

I know it's early days but what do folk think about Turner in comparison to Henderson?

I've been largely impressed so far - seems to make a worldie or two every game (the Burnley save in the cup, whether lucky or not, was outrageous), reasonable distribution (better than Hendo) but probably slightly less commanding.

I've been happy so far, while still holding a candle for Brice who I'm still not convinced isn't better than both!

 

[Monkman]

I think it's still a little early to judge - partly because we're more solid defensively than we were early last season, so Turner hasn't been called on as often. No complaints so far, but every keeper drops a bollock now and then - it'll be interesting to see the response when he does.

 

[Rzar]

I know it's early days but what do folk think about Turner in comparison to Henderson?

I've been largely impressed so far - seems to make a worldie or two every game (the Burnley save in the cup, whether lucky or not, was outrageous), reasonable distribution (better than Hendo) but probably slightly less commanding.

I've been happy so far, while still holding a candle for Brice who I'm still not convinced isn't better than both!

I think he's been better in every department so far. Small sample size though.

You mention Turner is less commanding but I thought that was Henderson's weak spot & Turner has been pretty proactive from set pieces.

 

[congo_red_49]

In a sort of odd way...I like my Goalkeepers to go relatively unnoticed.
Sure, the odd 'worldie' save is nice for them - but if they're going about their job and just keeping saveable balls out of the net, without dropping any clangers, then they're doing a good job for me.

 

[Trents]

Cor imagine if we'd signed Hendo after all and he crumbled after the few game. The 'told you so' brigade would be out in full force.

We've form on signing biscuits so nice to see us sensibly swerve this one.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Monkman is correct. The transfer doesn't become permanent from a books standpoint when the games trigger is reached, because the transfer window is shut at that point.

That was the point I was making in the first place and was getting disagreed with!

For the exact scenario that has played out. You can bet your life Palace wish they had negotiated a loan with an obligation after a certain number of matches after last night.

If the injury is a long-term recurrent one then you can bet Palace wished they'd not bothered at all. They might have avoided a £20m payment or whatever it was with a loan/obligation but they'd still have had to pay his wages and he'd have taken up a place on the 25 man squad which could have otherwise gone to a non-injured keeper.

But I think I'm in the minority here thinking our negotiation over Henderson was purely financial so I'll shuttum now.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I know it's early days but what do folk think about Turner in comparison to Henderson?

I think Henderson is probably the better keeper, but not by a lot, and not worth the additional outlay (regardless of any injury concerns).

I see it as:

Reflexes/Agility- Henderson significantly.
Handing - Henderson just.
Positioning/Decisions - Henderson just.
Aerial ability - Equal.
Distribution - Turner significantly.

So as long as Forest reduce shots on goal from inside the box then we probably won't notice much difference. With our favoured low block tactic forcing most teams out wide quite a lot that will help reduce any obvious quality gap between the two keepers given they're about the same dealing with crosses.

 

[Monkman]

That was the point I was making in the first place and was getting disagreed with!

No it isn't, you were suggesting there was a difference between a 3-game trigger and a 20-game trigger, and the counterpoint was that either way, the transfer wouldn't have happened until January.

 

[congo_red_49]

Hendo is certainly better at Keeping.

Keeping the medical staff busy...
Keeping up the rehab...

I'll get me coat.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

No it isn't, you were suggesting there was a difference between a 3-game trigger and a 20-game trigger, and the counterpoint was that either way, the transfer wouldn't have happened until January.

I was suggesting the 3 game trigger would mean transfer was confirmed and paid for in January whereas the 20 game trigger (with Forest leaving Henderson out a couple of times) would mean the trigger occurred in February, and therefore transfer and associated FFP calculations and cashflow out would move into next season/next summer.

 

[Professor Wolfgang Schnell BSc. PhD.]

The 'told you so' brigade would be out in full force

I think I might prefer the 'told you so' brigade to the 'know it all' brigade.

My preference would be the 'shut the f*** up' brigade, but I think I'm on the wrong forum for that.

 

[valspoodle]

It's not overly complicated.

I haven't got much money spare and if I buy a new (used) car, I take into account several factors, one of which is reliability.

Once I've assessed all the factors important to me I sort out a price I'm willing to pay and, possibly, the ways of paying.

If it doesn't seem right I think about it a bit and probably look elsewhere.

If you're in the goalkeeping business, I would say buying them is sort of similar.

 

[congo_red_49]

My preference would be the 'shut the F*** up' brigade, but I think I'm on the wrong forum for that.

I'm now trying to imagine what a forum would be like where all the poster have 'shut the f**k up'.
I imagine there wouldn't be much to read?

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I think I might prefer the 'told you so' brigade to the 'know it all' brigade.

My preference would be the 'shut the F*** up' brigade, but I think I'm on the wrong forum for that.

There's an ignore button. Use it if you wish.

 

[congo_red_49]

It's not overly complicated.

I haven't got much money spare and if I buy a new (used) car, I take into account several factors, one of which is reliability.

Once I've assessed all the factors important to me I sort out a price I'm willing to pay and, possibly, the ways of paying.

If it doesn't seem right I think about it a bit and probably look elsewhere.

If you're in the goalkeeping business, I would say buying them is sort of similar.

I can't imagine there would be many folks selling a car that would let you pay if it doesn't breakdown until you've driven 50,000 miles, or return it if it doesn't make it.
But then, it depends if you're buying with a warranty or not. Do Goalkeepers come with a warranty?

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

I'm now trying to imagine what a forum would be like where all the poster have 'shut the f**k up'.
I imagine there wouldn't be much to read?

Only Strummer is allowed to write words which include the word "bier" and generally talking to himself about how great Germany is. Everyone else is limited to posting pictures of squirrels or redheads. Next year a button in the top right corner gets introduced which spins a wheel containing pictures of Karanka and Warburton. Whoever it lands on is the better manager that day.

The forum is a happy place.

 

[congo_red_49]

Only Strummer is allowed to write words which include the word "bier" and generally talking to himself about how great Germany is. Everyone else is limited to posting pictures of squirrels or redheads.

So, it actually wouldn't be too different?