Current formation...

[cheapseats]

What do people think about the formation we are playing, particularly with reference to next year.

We've been 4-3-3 or a variant all season and it has looked bloody horrid with the players we have. In our hands it seems to have left the front man totally isolated-the wide two or inside forwards not knowing if they are wingers or auxillary CF's and doing neither well so we are rarely threatening.

I know its given us a bit of stability defensively with an "extra" CM player but I'm thinking its time for a change....

 

[Captain Sinister]

4-4-2...

 

[MASE]

Always read our current set up as a 4231 personally, when played, Krovinovic always looks to assume the 10 slot albeit from a deeper starting point.

No issue with a 4231, but the transition has to be fluent & it isnt without two bona fide, forward passing midfielders at the base. we havent always gone that way & looked far worse for it.

442 looks the most obvious with Hughton, given his preoccupation with width. However given what we have & our ability to put decent balls into the box, could you justify two strikers & a man light in midfield.

We're at a point here where we need to get 11 proficient footballers on the pitch before we pick & chose formations. We're currently limited which ever way we look.

 

[congo_red_49]

Almost every team is playing a 4-3-3 or 4-5-1 (i'm including 4-2-3-1 in that) variant these days. Every manager is obsessed with winning the midfield battle - which is almost always lost if you take the extra body out of there for an extra striker. Especially with our current crop of players, an extra striker is a waste as we have two players starved of service, instead of 1.

Having said that, players make formations work, not the other way around.

 

[Any Time Now]

I know we'll never do it but i'd like to try 3-5-2, Mbe Soh has a history of playing at RB so I feel like he could adjust and offer decent cover at RCB, Worrall in the middle and McKenna covering the left, they're all pretty mobile. Obviously the main problem would be figuring out the wingbacks but I feel like Ioannou and Christie could probably adapt (if we were to keep him)

 

[Ravi]

There’s nothing wrong with Hughton’s preferred 4231 formation. Players know their roles, we look well organised, and there’s a clear pattern of play.

What we need is a bit more quality in forward areas and in midfield, and a striker who fits his system.

 

[cheapseats]

I’m 90% with you that it’s players not systems. But our malaise going forward is so sustained I think we need to consider all options particularly going into a new season...

 

[Ashley]

442 only works if you have two absolutely top class midfielders who can do a bit of everything (and do it well) to make up for being a man light in midfield. Unless we can somehow find a way to sign two £20m midfielders who are far too good for this league (as well as two top class strikers to justify going 442) whilst miraculously avoid FFP sanctions, then 442 is a recipe for failure in this day and age.

I don't think the current formation is the problem, I just think we simply need better players than those we currently have.

 

[Danga]

What we need is a bit more quality in forward areas and in midfield, and a striker who fits his system.

We barely got a shot on target last night despite having Garner, Krovi, Taylor, Mighten and Freeman starting. Likewise against Huddersfield we started a number of players which fans from the outside looking in would kill for.

We can question the form of some players, but to say we lack quality in those areas is flat out wrong IMO. The tactic last night seemed to be limp it in to Taylor and go from there.


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[Haych]

The formation means nothing it’s how to set up what matters.

433, 4231 or 442 it doesn’t matter as on paper they could all be attacking and at the same time they could be defensive.

On top of that, the teams shape changes multiple times in a game if you have the ball or not. It’s just another thing for fans to overthink.

 

[Ravi]

We barely got a shot on target last night despite having Garner, Krovi, Taylor, Mighten and Freeman starting. Likewise against Huddersfield we started a number of players which fans from the outside looking in would kill for.

We can question the form of some players, but to say we lack quality in those areas is flat out wrong IMO. The tactic last night seemed to be limp it in to Taylor and go from there.


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You’ve picked out one end of season game where there was little to play for. CH was unhappy with the way the players performed. The formation was the same one used in some of the best performances of the season in the past few months. It isn’t the formation that’s the problem.

 

[nffclsr]

Through Hughton's whole managerial career he has played 4-4-1-1. Always had, and I think always will. I know commentators and media talk about all these modern formations, but I really don't think Hughton plays that way.

Just take a look at Forest when they don't have the ball or when things aren't going their way (which is often), they are lined up on the pitch in 4-4-1-1 because it is solid defensively.

Going forward the 1 behind the striker has to be dynamic and the system favors a target man up front. I really like our Croatian lad but he's not a goal threat by any means and never has been. Also, we haven't got a target man up front.

I really like the idea above about playing 3 at the back as central defender is our most abundantly talented position at the club. I'm not even that worried as many other regarding Worrell being sold as I really like the look of Mbe Soh and think it's a shame he hasn't been given more minutes on the pitch this season.

With Hughton in charge I think there is about a 0% chance of anything other than 4-4-1-1 or something incredibly similar being played.

Tactics are one thing, but as Cloughie used to say it is down to the players on the pitch as footballers to adjust to a match. I'm not sure some of our lot the past few years are up to that though.

 

[cheapseats]

The formation means nothing it’s how to set up what matters.

433, 4231 or 442 it doesn’t matter as on paper they could all be attacking and at the same time they could be defensive.

On top of that, the teams shape changes multiple times in a game if you have the ball or not. It’s just another thing for fans to overthink.

I used to think that back in the day that formations didn't matter (in Cloughies era)-I thought you could just chuck 11 decent players on the pitch in roughly the right combinations and it worked-and that's because it did for Clough. Much of that I think was the myth he created, I think he was tactically cleverer than he liked to appear...
I do think however in the modern era it matters and I think that applies more and more the higher you go up the quality ladder...As was said earlier much of it is about winning (or not loosing) the midfield battle which is why we see 90% teams playing a system that sacrifices the second striker for a 3rd midfielder.

Thing is 4-3-3 needs a big strong CF, and the teams like Watford and Reading that play it well in this league generally have 2 powerful, fast attacking guys alongside. They aren't really in there as wingers per se.
With us that front 3 consist of a whispy drifter (Grabban)who is a sort of distributor at best and 2 wingers who aren't really much of a goal threat (except perhaps for Sammy, but that's because he's unpredictable and has a shot on him). It doesn't seem we have the players to play that way...

 

[Professor Wolfgang Schnell BSc. PhD.]

whispy drifter ?

 

[Danga]

You’ve picked out one end of season game where there was little to play for. CH was unhappy with the way the players performed. The formation was the same one used in some of the best performances of the season in the past few months. It isn’t the formation that’s the problem.

We are the fourth lowest scorers in the division with 35 goals.
Nobody in the squad has scored more than five goals, and then there is the famous own goal stat...
We have scored more than one goal on only seven occasions this season.

This isn't cherry picking, this is a broad view over pretty much a season of Chris Hughton as manager. I get it, you like/rate Chris (funnily enough so do i) but you seriously don't believe the reason why we are so bad going forward is only down to the squad? We have players who have historically been creative/scored goals from our fullbacks right through to our strikers.

 

[Strummer]

Bring back 2-3-5

With 5 forwards on the pitch, Forest would be certain to score more *







* more likely in Forest‘s case, they’d Just blunder about and get in each others‘ way, like the bloody Keystone Kops.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Hughton wants to play with inverted wingers but we don't have any threat from our full backs really. Christie likes to get forward but also likes to run into dead ends. Bong and now Blackett aren't particularly adventurous full backs either. Big problem #1.

Hughton also wants a #10 who can find pockets of space, get on the ball and pick that incisive pass. Krovinovic has shown he can do the first two but hasn't shown at all so far he can do the third, which unfortunately is the thing that brings the goals. Big problem #2.

I also think Hughton wants his striker to have more of a physical presence, so that he can hold up the ball and bring others into play, especially when our counter threat is quite limited due to lack of pace and direct running at teams. We brought Murray in to do that but he's just lost too much of his legs. Neither Grabban nor Taylor fit into the current system, they're just isolated and beaten to balls into them every time. Big problem #3.

Sort those and the 4-2-3-1 will look fine.

I note Gandalf's point about we have quality but I'd question it. Freeman looks like a fat useless sack of shit to me who's completely anon in games. Doesn't matter if he scored a few goals at QPR and Sheff Utd paid £5m for him, he's been shit. So too Knockaert - he's a bit more involved and seems to try a bit harder but ultimately the end product isn't there. He doesn't score his chances, and more often than not doesn't provide the assist he could. Combine that with Krovinovic not doing the through balls and a striker who can't hold it up then you can quickly see why the forward play is disjointed.

I'm not concerned yet. Hughton will address it in the summer.

 

[Danga]

I note Gandalf's point about we have quality but I'd question it. Freeman looks like a fat useless sack of shit to me who's completely anon in games. Doesn't matter if he scored a few goals at QPR and Sheff Utd paid £5m for him, he's been shit. So too Knockaert - he's a bit more involved and seems to try a bit harder but ultimately the end product isn't there. He doesn't score his chances, and more often than not doesn't provide the assist he could. Combine that with Krovinovic not doing the through balls and a striker who can't hold it up then you can quickly see why the forward play is disjointed.

I'm not concerned yet. Hughton will address it in the summer.

Neither am I, I think Hughton will find the right balance over the summer which will see us somewhere from 6th/10th next year.

I don't disagree either that some of these lads look a shadow of their former selves, but it isn't like Hughton has only been here for 6 weeks, it's been 7 months and still Freeman looks overweight and unmotivated, Knockaert (someone who CH identified as soon as he walked through the door) has been a massive disappointment, Krovi looks great till you ask him to do something meaningful with the ball, Murray, Grabben and Taylor all look shot.

Alluding to your post Maxi, I think what Hughton wants and has asked the side to do hasn't really synced up with the players he has had at his disposal.

 

[MASE]

Neither am I, I think Hughton will find the right balance over the summer which will see us somewhere from 6th/10th next year.

I don't disagree either that some of these lads look a shadow of their former selves, but it isn't like Hughton has only been here for 6 weeks, it's been 7 months and still Freeman looks overweight and unmotivated, Knockaert (someone who CH identified as soon as he walked through the door) has been a massive disappointment, Krovi looks great till you ask him to do something meaningful with the ball, Murray, Grabben and Taylor all look shot.

Alluding to your post Maxi, I think what Hughton wants and has asked the side to do hasn't really synced up with the players he has had at his disposal.

Freeman must still be managing an injury where he struggles to do fitness work, he's never looked anywhere near this unfit in his playing days, there has to be an issue beyond Hughtons inability to get him to train & apply himself Its a harsh insinuation, as is the inference he's asking the players to do things outside their skill set, f***ing hell, the brief looks basic enough. Look after the ball, get it wide & put some crosses in.

Some want this to be Hughton & his formation, it isn't, your much nearer the mark when you suggest certain players are either shot, out of form, or couldnt hit a barn door.

Incredible we're in this situation again, but we need more major surgery on the team.

 

[Ravi]

We are the fourth lowest scorers in the division with 35 goals.
Nobody in the squad has scored more than five goals, and then there is the famous own goal stat...
We have scored more than one goal on only seven occasions this season.

This isn't cherry picking, this is a broad view over pretty much a season of Chris Hughton as manager. I get it, you like/rate Chris (funnily enough so do i) but you seriously don't believe the reason why we are so bad going forward is only down to the squad? We have players who have historically been creative/scored goals from our fullbacks right through to our strikers.

You are cherry picking because you mentioned goals scored but failed to balance it up with goals conceded. We have one of the best defences since Hughton arrived. That’s down to his management, including getting the team organised in his preferred formation.

Everyone agrees that we need to score a few more next season, but we don’t need many more to challenge the top six. A summer of a few Hughton players incoming and our better players, such as Lolley and Grabban, being more clinical would make a huge difference to our position in the table.

 

[Danga]

You are cherry picking because you mentioned goals scored but failed to balance it up with goals conceded. We have one of the best defences since Hughton arrived. That’s down to his management, including getting the team organised in his preferred formation.

But this isn’t the flow of the post? The conversation (as I was reading it) was that we look so lacklustre going forward and is that down to the formation that we play, should we change it, is it the players etc.

We could have the best defence in the league, but if you don’t score goals you won’t be up there at the end of the season. The current lowest scorers in the top 7 are Swansea on 52, Forest need to be finding 17 goals from somewhere next season to match that. The top 3 and Brentford are all in the 60’s and 70’s in goals scored, crossing our fingers and toes hoping Joe Lolley and Lewis Grabben can roll back the years won’t fix that IMO.

Like I say, I think Hughton will do enough over the summer to see us floating top third of the table come this time next year. But I do think his side needs to be a bit more expansive going forward if we are going to stick another 20 odd goals in the for column.


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[adam09]

whispy drifter ?

Wonder if there’s an Italian term for that

 

[NooForest]

Hughton wants to play with inverted wingers but we don't have any threat from our full backs really. Christie likes to get forward but also likes to run into dead ends. Bong and now Blackett aren't particularly adventurous full backs either. Big problem #1.

Hughton also wants a #10 who can find pockets of space, get on the ball and pick that incisive pass. Krovinovic has shown he can do the first two but hasn't shown at all so far he can do the third, which unfortunately is the thing that brings the goals. Big problem #2.

I also think Hughton wants his striker to have more of a physical presence, so that he can hold up the ball and bring others into play, especially when our counter threat is quite limited due to lack of pace and direct running at teams. We brought Murray in to do that but he's just lost too much of his legs. Neither Grabban nor Taylor fit into the current system, they're just isolated and beaten to balls into them every time. Big problem #3.

Sort those and the 4-2-3-1 will look fine.

I note Gandalf's point about we have quality but I'd question it. Freeman looks like a fat useless sack of shit to me who's completely anon in games. Doesn't matter if he scored a few goals at QPR and Sheff Utd paid £5m for him, he's been shit. So too Knockaert - he's a bit more involved and seems to try a bit harder but ultimately the end product isn't there. He doesn't score his chances, and more often than not doesn't provide the assist he could. Combine that with Krovinovic not doing the through balls and a striker who can't hold it up then you can quickly see why the forward play is disjointed.

I'm not concerned yet. Hughton will address it in the summer.

Exactly how I see it but I think he needs to get rid of virtually all of them. I have said this before but I wouldn't keep any of them except Brice Samba.

That won't be the case but I definitely don't think any of the rest are good enough to play in the PL and if you wanna get there. The team has to have at least 5 or 6 players who are capable of playing in that Division to get out of this Division.

 

[valspoodle]

More fun watching formation dancing than our football at the moment.

 

[NooForest]

More fun watching formation dancing than our football at the moment.

This post is useless without pics or videos ?