Current accounts

[Flaggers]

https://twitter.com/KieranMaguire/status/1369907390267723783?s=19

Ouch.

Nottingham Forest publish operating losses of £32m for 2019/20 taking total losses to £187,000,000 #NFFC https://t.co/wyzhmuCRq5

Forest paid £148 in wages for every £100 of income in 2019/20 https://t.co/Pg3Yrr0Sap

In each of the last 11 years Forest have paid out more in wages than they have generated in revenue, with revenue of £208m and wages of £289m, highlighting the insanity and lack of cost control in the EFL Championship #Bonkers #NFFC https://t.co/WRKdriBCjk

 

[Any Time Now]

And this is before we acquired Arter and Knockaert etc. Looks inevitable that we'll have to cash in on Worrall this summer to balance the books. There's still people expecting us to spend in the upcoming transfer window, i assume there's going to be a lot of disappointed fans going into the start of next season

 

[Carlos]

And this is before we acquired Arter and Knockaert etc. Looks inevitable that we'll have to cash in on Worrall this summer to balance the books. There's still people expecting us to spend in the upcoming transfer window, i assume there's going to be a lot of disappointed fans going into the start of next season

I can't see many outside of the über rich spending a lot in summer. Corona has almost put a hell of a lot of clubs out of business, it may well be clever moving assets and loans again for a lot.

 

[cheapseats]

Football is a fascinating and crazy financial experiment. I'm amazed the edifice has held together for so long TBH.

I just hope that tax payers money isn't used to prop up this shit show because of Covid because its clear that the problem is that players are just being paid too much right across the board. They need to be forced to take a haircut. Wages across the board need to be reduced by 50% at least (and they will still be earning an amazing living at that). I really wish the EFL would impose a wage cap both for clubs and individual players, sure it would lead to an exodus of the better players to the prem and possibly some of them going over to Europe where they can but it would settle after a few years and then hopefully we would have clubs that were at least stable....

 

[Ravi]

I'll be interested to see the Derby and Sheff Wed accounts.

 

[Strummer]

I'll be interested to see the Derby and Sheff Wed accounts.

So, I suspect, will Her Majesty‘s Revenue and Customs!

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

 

[Timothy Pope]

Football is a fascinating and crazy financial experiment. I'm amazed the edifice has held together for so long TBH.

I just hope that tax payers money isn't used to prop up this shit show because of Covid because its clear that the problem is that players are just being paid too much right across the board. They need to be forced to take a haircut.[/I] Wages across the board need to be reduced by 50% at least (and they will still be earning an amazing living at that). I really wish the EFL would impose a wage cap both for clubs and individual players, sure it would lead to an exodus of the better players to the prem and possibly some of them going over to Europe where they can but it would settle after a few years and then hopefully we would have clubs that were at least stable....

I think you’ll find the precious little urchins are managing this quite well by themselves


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

NB: This is why clubs who have a long term, sustainable approach, like Brentford and now Barnsley tend to do better than us, because they're not constantly firefighting financial blackholes and can focus on steady year on year improvements.

But that wasn't ambitious enough for many of us a few years back, so here we are, rocking it in a relegation battle spending twice as much as we take in revenue.

 

[Captain Sinister]

I think the sale of Matty Cash was a post-balance sheet event, and the profit on his disposal should not be behind the player sales numbers.
So the accounts for 20-21 will have that benefit, but will have the full impact of COVID.
There is little chance, in my arrogant opinion, that FFP will be imposed this year or next.
There is little to be financially upbeat about in the numbers.
The average attendance at the City Ground pre-lockdown at 27,723 is a pleasing number!

 

[DanR]

Average attendance is a pleasing number in terms of us maximising current opportunity for crowd numbers, but once away support and segregation is considered there is very little room to grow income from matchday attendance until the ground is expanded. Attracting 27k each week will be more problematic if they are watching mid-table or relegation battle football.

The amount we pay our players, and the number of players, is criminal when compared to the achievement on the pitch. It is also unsustainable.

 

[incapable hulk]

NB: This is why clubs who have a long term, sustainable approach, like Brentford and now Barnsley tend to do better than us, because they're not constantly firefighting financial blackholes and can focus on steady year on year improvements.

But that wasn't ambitious enough for many of us a few years back, so here we are, rocking it in a relegation battle spending twice as much as we take in revenue.

Barnsley were in league one the season before last, and were also down there in 2016. They've only finished above us in the league once in the last 11 years or so. I wouldn't say they tend to do better than us as this season is pretty much an anomaly and it was only 2 years ago they were in division 3. It's far too early to tell if their success this season is the result of a long term plan, as their league position is currently based on one run of 7 straight wins. Prior to that run they had more losses than victories this season.


Brentford on the other hand yes, they have benefitted from a consistent approach but that approach was based on closing down their their academy and plucking "rejects" from other clubs academy systems rather than developing their own. Not sure that would fly here as half the folk on here already have a fit whenever the club brings in young players from Premier League clubs or other places. Also Brentford are in the same position they've been in for the last few years and have pretty much hit a ceiling - they have not been able to take the next step. We'd love to be in their position, obviously and they are doing exceptionally well with pairing a progressive approach to the resources they have. Which is something we could learn from rather than just switching out the starting XI each year.

 

[Caveman Ninja]

I'll be interested to see the Derby and Sheff Wed accounts.

Heard Derby will be making a healthy profit, Mel bought a half-time pie for £548 million so they're actually coming out of this a tenner up

 

[cheapseats]

Barnsley were in league one the season before last, and were also down there in 2016. They've only finished above us in the league once in the last 11 years or so. I wouldn't say they tend to do better than us as this season is pretty much an anomaly and it was only 2 years ago they were in division 3. It's far too early to tell if their success this season is the result of a long term plan, as their league position is currently based on one run of 7 straight wins. Prior to that run they had more losses than victories this season.


Brentford on the other hand yes, they have benefitted from a consistent approach but that approach was based on closing down their their academy and plucking "rejects" from other clubs academy systems rather than developing their own. Not sure that would fly here as half the folk on here already have a fit whenever the club brings in young players from Premier League clubs or other places. Also Brentford are in the same position they've been in for the last few years and have pretty much hit a ceiling - they have not been able to take the next step. We'd love to be in their position, obviously and they are doing exceptionally well with pairing a progressive approach to the resources they have. Which is something we could learn from rather than just switching out the starting XI each year.

Completely agree-and theres always a side (or 2) in the championship that seems to get it right and over perform relative to their squad. Theres often not a pattern to this, something just clicks and away they go. Its like a bloody mirage in a desert for forest fans....

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Completely agree-and theres always a side (or 2) in the championship that seems to get it right and over perform relative to their squad. Theres often not a pattern to this, something just clicks and away they go. Its like a bloody mirage in a desert for forest fans....

Billy Beane's at Barnsley now. There's probably a reason for the (perceived) over-performance. Same thing happening at AZ Alkmaar who are 3rd in the Dutch league, ahead of Feyenoord.

Careful spending based on statistical analysis. Something Forest seemingly will never embrace, but we know better eh?

 

[Ravi]

Barnsley were in league one the season before last, and were also down there in 2016. They've only finished above us in the league once in the last 11 years or so. I wouldn't say they tend to do better than us as this season is pretty much an anomaly and it was only 2 years ago they were in division 3. It's far too early to tell if their success this season is the result of a long term plan, as their league position is currently based on one run of 7 straight wins. Prior to that run they had more losses than victories this season.


Brentford on the other hand yes, they have benefitted from a consistent approach but that approach was based on closing down their their academy and plucking "rejects" from other clubs academy systems rather than developing their own. Not sure that would fly here as half the folk on here already have a fit whenever the club brings in young players from Premier League clubs or other places. Also Brentford are in the same position they've been in for the last few years and have pretty much hit a ceiling - they have not been able to take the next step. We'd love to be in their position, obviously and they are doing exceptionally well with pairing a progressive approach to the resources they have. Which is something we could learn from rather than just switching out the starting XI each year.

Aye, I agree about Barnsley, I’d prefer to wait and see where they actually finish before blowing smoke up their arse. However, Brentford are a good example of what a smaller club can do if they have a radical statistics based recruitment plan and stick to it. It made perfect sense for them to close their academy, they were never going to attract good enough youngsters with all the other bigger clubs in their area and so it was most likely to continue as a drain on resources rather than a profit generator like ours.

Time will tell, but maybe Brentford will struggle to get over the line. It takes more than a consistent and radical plan and good recruitment to secure promotion. It also takes a winning mentality, the right mix of nous, quality and experience. Not the thing that a shoe string player budget usually provides. Bournemouth brought in some proven quality and experience to get them over the line where they went up a few years ago. Not sure that would meet the consistency targets in Brentford’s approach.

I agree we could learn from them, particularly in terms of statistical analysis, but their approach wouldn’t work here because the two clubs are so different in terms of size and fan expectations.

 

[Ravi]

Heard Derby will be making a healthy profit, Mel bought a half-time pie for £548 million so they're actually coming out of this a tenner up

“Going down with a tenner in the bank...”

 

[Ravi]

By the way, I notice the club has spent a couple of million so far on the new stand and hope to proceed this year. Hopefully that will calm some of the doubters.

 

[cheapseats]

Billy Beane's at Barnsley now. There's probably a reason for the (perceived) over-performance. Same thing happening at AZ Alkmaar who are 3rd in the Dutch league, ahead of Feyenoord.

Careful spending based on statistical analysis. Something Forest seemingly will never embrace, but we know better eh?

Maybe we should give it a go, might have to stick with a manager for more than 12 months though...

 

[Ravi]

Maybe we should give it a go, might have to stick with a manager for more than 12 months though...

Why? The manager’s are meant to be interchangeable in their approaches. Stendel was only at Barnsley for a year, and Brentford seamlessly change coaches. The manager needs to be someone who will adhere closely to the plan rather than an individual who has his own approach.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Why? The manager’s are meant to be interchangeable in their approaches. Stendel was only at Barnsley for a year, and Brentford seamlessly change coaches. The manager needs to be someone who will adhere closely to the plan rather than an individual who has his own approach.

The manager is more like a head coach rather than a traditional manager.

Sort of get the point that consistency is important, but it doesn't have to be coaches, provided like you say they fit in with the club ethos. The other things these clubs do well is they replace outgoing players with like-for-like, so they fit straight in. For Forest that would have meant replacing Cash with a right back who bombed forward, hugged flank, tackled hard, won aerial duals etc. Instead we got Cyrus Christie.

 

[Lee]

Excellent figures, pleased with what we’ve achieved.

 

[Captain Sinister]

Why? The manager’s are meant to be interchangeable in their approaches. Stendel was only at Barnsley for a year, and Brentford seamlessly change coaches. The manager needs to be someone who will adhere closely to the plan rather than an individual who has his own approach.

Sounds like you ought to document your idea and send it to NFFC Board:
1 Agree on the best strategy for NFFC in terms of players;
2 Agree a person profile and a role spec for each position the Club decides to use, and how they want to use it;
3 Appraise the fit of the current manager to delivering te agreed forest way.
4 If current incumbent doesn't meet the agreed personal spec and job spec, part company and undertake recruitment exercise and only appoint an applicant who meets both the person spec and the job spec.
5 Critically appraise each player to see which oones meet the strategic plan requirements for person spec and the job spec for the position they are best suited to play in;
6 Prioritise where the gaps are in terms of positions that cannot be filled by exisitng players as required by the person/job spec for the position;
7 Establish a recruitment team, including scouts, agent contacts and executive who are well schooled in understanding the agreed strategic plan;
8 Agree recruitment budgets for maximum spend on the positions identified as most needing recuitment of players who meet the spec.
9 Do not exceed agreed budgets, and don't offer contract unless targeted player really meets the person spec and job spec;
10 Establish Academy structure to deliver young players who have been selected because they meet the person spec and understand what the job role is.
11 Be prepared to get rid of anyone not pulling in the strategic direction agreed by the Board.
12 Monitor progress and review strategy in line with developments in the structure of the game.
13 Bin any plan that says "Deliver promotion to the top flight in x years... it doesn't work like that!

 

[Green Jumper]

I've had a look at the latest results today. They're pretty good to be fair. There's still plenty of work to be done, but at least it's moving in the right direction.

Trying to fill in the blanks a liitle, if we assume revenue lost to lockdown may have added 10% (£2.5m) to turnover; the operating loss would have been more in the region of £29.4m. How this will addressed by the EFL bean counters remains to be seen, but I couldn't see them being on anything other than incredibly shaky ground trying to impose sanctions on any club under the circumstances.

Again assuming this season's turnover and costs would have been similar and booking the full Matty Cash transfer fee to the next accounts, we'd be looking at current season losses of around £15.4m. However, the reality of day-to-day operations is likely to take actual losses above £50m and that money will have to be found, through a combination of loans from Marinakis, cost cutting and player sales.

Unfortunately, I think this means Worrall at least will have to be sold in the summer, no more contract extensions and CH using his contacts to bring in a small number of short-term deals and loans.

 

[DizzyBala]

The cost of failure. Spent all that money to go around in circles, much like Fawaz did, with f*** all to show for it.
Premierleague football or the stadium improvements don't concern me, frankly those ideas are for another club right now.

Things like this however do start to worry me about the long-term health of our precious football club.
The idea that we've got to sell Worrall or Johnson or Mighten for example to fund this shithouse approach to running a football club is a disgrace and goes against the ideals that I think we should have at this club.

Hindsight is a beautiful thing, but the owners had it right when they first came in. They've f**ked things up because they got impatient and deviated from the plan.
Now we're going to have to hit reset again.