With all the shite that is football today, embargoes, transfer windows, obscene wages etc etc, my question is. If the game was run the same in the seventies, do you think we would have 2 stars on our shirts now. Would Clough have survived his first season. Would Woody, Viv, Martin and Robbo have had their heads turned by the lure of the money in the top flight. Myself I don't think we would have stood a feckin chance
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2 stars. Would it be possible now
- Thread starter OLDMANRED
- Start date
Blue
Banned
He was ahead of his time.
We'd have had 3 stars if it was now
We'd have had 3 stars if it was now
Alpha Fail
Jack Burkitt
No, we did it when it mattered. Different sport now other than the basic on-field rules (and even then...) so the time for smaller clubs to achieve impossible things has passed. Most of them didn't, when they might have. Forest did.
Barry
Where's me hammer?
Before my time but the year we went up twitter would have wanted all them players who won 2 european cup finals bombed out for big league mercenaries..... and a carpet fitter from long eaton given a game against liverpool? This place would have blown up. In reality there is only a select group of 10 clubs who will win the european cup again.
I think city and PSG will have a turn but no new winners after that.
I think city and PSG will have a turn but no new winners after that.
Money has ruined football as a competitive sport and the chances of a small club doing now what we did then are impossible.
Joe Baker's Dog
Grenville Morris
Brian Clough and Pete Taylor would have succeeded today, they were even better than we realised at the time. However, whether Brian would have survived the first season with our current owner/out impatient fans is unlikely......
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
No way in hell.
There's a million different angles to it, but I actually think it's more a reflection on modern culture than just football. Consumerism and a fast-food mentality which corporate America has brainwashed millions with, trying to replace the simple joys of having a good kickabout and post match beer with the lads with playboy lifestyles and bullshit.
I actually think that players themselves would be far happier in a 70's setup. Yes wages would have to increase so that they could not have to worry about mortgages or pensions post football retirement, but not to the crazy degree they are now, nowhere near.
There's a million different angles to it, but I actually think it's more a reflection on modern culture than just football. Consumerism and a fast-food mentality which corporate America has brainwashed millions with, trying to replace the simple joys of having a good kickabout and post match beer with the lads with playboy lifestyles and bullshit.
I actually think that players themselves would be far happier in a 70's setup. Yes wages would have to increase so that they could not have to worry about mortgages or pensions post football retirement, but not to the crazy degree they are now, nowhere near.
valspoodle
Steve Chettle
There is a time and a place for everything. Sadly our time has gone, but all of us who were around then can count our lucky stars that we witnessed our time. Great joy. See!! Life is wonderful after all.
Blue
Banned
I'm old enough to remember people moaning about him
If they gave stars for moaning we'd have a shirt full
Barry
Where's me hammer?
For those around at the time, could there have been a third or maybe a fa cup/uefa cup if taylor would have stayed on? I know we came close but would he have made that difference?
Redemption
Chief Eye Roller
Some irony.
Forest won those two European Cups with the most expensive player at the time.
Forest won those two European Cups with the most expensive player at the time.
We were a good bet to win the UEFA Cup in 1984, had we not been the victim of a bent Referee bribed by Anderlecht.
Where we really went wrong as a club was getting relegated from the Premier League, just as the big money started coming into the game with Sky et al in the early 90s
Arguably we've never properly recovered from that.
Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "Wanksy"
I want it back Val.
I accept and would actually be happpy for a middle ground to be met, top players on 10k/wk, a bit of razmatazz here and there, but a far more traditional, simpler and "natural" setup to what we have now.
tropix
Steve Chettle
There's still room for miracles in football, despite the apathy from those that experienced the past generation. Look at Bournemouth's recent rise from near collapse, and Swansea going from League Two to League Cup winners + playing in Europe
Two stars is probably unlikely, but the format of the European Cup these days doesn't help
Two stars is probably unlikely, but the format of the European Cup these days doesn't help
Blue
Banned
This^
The only reason we know it was possible before was because we did it
We'll only know it's possible again when someone else does
Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
I've absolutely no doubt that we would've won the UEFA Cup in 1984 had we not been cheated out of a place in the final. Taylor had gone by that time.
I'm also convinced that we would've had a a good chance of Euro success under Cloughie's guidance had we not been cruelly banned from entering Euro competitions because of the misdemeanours of others.
So yes, a third star, without PT's influence, was very much a probability had it not been for circumstances beyond our control.
Fitzcarraldo
Ian Storey-Moore
Cloughy was a one-off doing something remarkable for both Forest and the clowns down the road.
I struggle with this issue as football (like empires) has always had periods of domination by one or a few teams. Money has also played a part in these periods of success - didn't we need break one or two transfer records at the time we were riding high?
Granted, this is magnified today by the huge amounts of money in the game and the types of investors now attracted to the EPL but the pattern remains. You only have to look at Liverpool's reign during the 70's and 80's.
I'm reassured by the recent activity in the transfer window where big clubs were forced to pay over the odds for mediocre and untested players to see there is a power shift occurring; the market is equalising somewhat. Smaller clubs are getting their acts together and through the fairer distribution of money in the top flight, so called smaller clubs are now able to invest in the resources that were the reserve of the big boys; higher wages, better scouting networks, facilities etc. This will trickle down in time. I believe we will see a club outside the top 5 win the EPL by 2020, or at least break the top four monopoly.
One of the main reasons it hasn't happened yet is poor management failure by traditional clubs to move the business model with the times.
I struggle with this issue as football (like empires) has always had periods of domination by one or a few teams. Money has also played a part in these periods of success - didn't we need break one or two transfer records at the time we were riding high?
Granted, this is magnified today by the huge amounts of money in the game and the types of investors now attracted to the EPL but the pattern remains. You only have to look at Liverpool's reign during the 70's and 80's.
I'm reassured by the recent activity in the transfer window where big clubs were forced to pay over the odds for mediocre and untested players to see there is a power shift occurring; the market is equalising somewhat. Smaller clubs are getting their acts together and through the fairer distribution of money in the top flight, so called smaller clubs are now able to invest in the resources that were the reserve of the big boys; higher wages, better scouting networks, facilities etc. This will trickle down in time. I believe we will see a club outside the top 5 win the EPL by 2020, or at least break the top four monopoly.
One of the main reasons it hasn't happened yet is poor management failure by traditional clubs to move the business model with the times.
Redemption
Chief Eye Roller
during those 5 years we finished 9th, 8th, 8th, 3rd, 3rd ... in the years we finished third we'd have been in the UEFA Cup, so no star at all - and although we got to the Semi Final in 84/85, in 85/86 we went out in Round 1, iirc
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
There is absolutely no chance of a medium-sized club like Forest working with the players they currently have and turning them leading players, winning promotion and then the Premier league the season after. No chance whatsoever.
The money in the 'big' clubs at the moment just means that if they suffer even a minor bit of form they will reinvest heavily into the squad to maintain their position. See Man Utd over the past couple of years. Spurs have spent a lot and not managed to break the top four monopoly.
The only way a current 'mid-sized' club will break the top four is if they are bought out and have millions upon millions sunk into them. The only club who will interest a backer like that, who have a large history and fan base, are Leeds. But then even if they did get their sugar daddy and end up back in Europe, then it's not doing it the same way Forest did 30 years ago.
Football outside the Premier League is dying. Each year the gap between the top two leagues grows, and it's only because clubs like Swansea, Southampton and Bournemouth are so well run that they manage to survive the first year and then go again the second. In years gone by all three clubs would have finished top six in their first year in the big time.
The money in the 'big' clubs at the moment just means that if they suffer even a minor bit of form they will reinvest heavily into the squad to maintain their position. See Man Utd over the past couple of years. Spurs have spent a lot and not managed to break the top four monopoly.
The only way a current 'mid-sized' club will break the top four is if they are bought out and have millions upon millions sunk into them. The only club who will interest a backer like that, who have a large history and fan base, are Leeds. But then even if they did get their sugar daddy and end up back in Europe, then it's not doing it the same way Forest did 30 years ago.
Football outside the Premier League is dying. Each year the gap between the top two leagues grows, and it's only because clubs like Swansea, Southampton and Bournemouth are so well run that they manage to survive the first year and then go again the second. In years gone by all three clubs would have finished top six in their first year in the big time.
Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
Any Euro success deserves a star, as Ipswich have acknowledged in recognition of their UEFA Cup succes.
Furthermore, at that time, the UEFA Cup was rightly regarded as a tough trophy to win, such was the status of many of the clubs involved.
You also omit to mention that we would've qualified for the UEFA Cup had English clubs been allowed to compete by way of our League Cup wins.
Redemption
Chief Eye Roller
Would that include the Super Cup?
I'm not denigrating it, but we didn't win it. Ever.
But it still stands that if we had been in the UEFA Cup - league position or winning a cup - there was no guarantee that we would have won it.
Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
You're right of cours PD, there was no guarantee. To my mind however, had we not been cheated in '84, and had we been allowed to compete in the late 80s, the way BC had set the team up to play, I'm entirely convinced we would've achieved further European success.
Just my opinion.
Just my opinion.
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I don't think we'd have even been promoted at the time. Clough would have gone for not winning promotion in his first full season. The young lads would have been poached. Clark would have taken a final payday at a richer club. I'm just glad I was around when the game and life itself was so much simpler
Alpha Fail
Jack Burkitt
OK, stick Bale and De Gaea in our current squad and win the Champion's League with it. Then you'll have a point.
Alpha Fail
Jack Burkitt
Simply being in the cups those years we were excluded, let alone winning in 84 would have seen us retain or attract better players, so we'd expect to do a bit better in the leagues, which would have got us into more cups.