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Daniel Taylor Twitter Rant Thread

GOBIAS

GOBIAS

Ian Bowyer
Strummer said:
We have 400.000-plus employees around the world.

Many of whom are in cultures that differ from the basic stuff in terms of naming conventions (last name first, or adopting a „westernised“ first name - hello China) to countries where many have the same parental name (for example, Nguyen, in Vietnam) and - for me, anyway - our „corporate“ ability to state pronouns has helped me more that once to be able to correctly address a colleague - and the likewise opposite is true (or at least I am told, especially by colleagues on in the Asia-Pacific region).
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Most of my colleagues are called Steve or John so its never been a massive problem 🤣
 
Eddie Yates

Eddie Yates

Steve Chettle
Strummer said:
We have 400.000-plus employees around the world.

Many of whom are in cultures that differ from the basic stuff in terms of naming conventions (last name first, or adopting a „westernised“ first name - hello China) to countries where many have the same parental name (for example, Nguyen, in Vietnam) and - for me, anyway - our „corporate“ ability to state pronouns has helped me more that once to be able to correctly address a colleague - and the likewise opposite is true (or at least I am told, especially by colleagues on in the Asia-Pacific region).
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I was confused when I received an email from Hin Xian Hoo-Tak Mao from Shanghai & he signed it off "Regards Mick"
 
congo_red_49

congo_red_49

Ale Ape
Our offshore ‘service’ centres - that I seem to spend hours of my day correcting their mistakes or intervening when they aren’t helpful - can’t even get my name correct, when replying to an email where I’ve written it. They always seem to spell it ‘Lan’. I’m not a local area network. Doesn’t offend me though. Similarly if they referred to me by an incorrect pronoun I wouldn’t really care.
I would prefer if they did their jobs properly though.
 
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Monkman

Monkman

Grenville Morris
How many of the people posting "who cares about pronouns" are transgender or non-binary? (Genuine question, I'm not making assumptions.) Just as it's not ok for a white person to say "things were fine, why change", (or equally for a man to say it) I don't think it's ok for those of us lucky enough to be born with a body that matches how we feel as a person to say that. I'm a straight white cis male, but I recognise how lucky that makes me and don't presume to understand how it feels to be part of a marginalised minority. Does it really hurt you if someone puts their pronouns in an email? And yet it might help that minority feel more like they actually belong in this world, especially if everyone puts their pronouns in an email signature so that it's normalised and not something that makes you stand out. That's the idea. Is it really that harmful to you?

Fwiw I don't put my pronouns in my signature, but I'm absolutely not offended or annoyed if someone else does and nor should anyone be.
 
Strummer

Strummer

Socialismo O Muerte!
LTLF Minion
GOBIAS said:
Most of my colleagues are called Steve or John so its never been a massive problem 🤣
Click to expand...
Yeah, we have official offices in (from memory) 61 different countries, and resellers and sales and suchlike in dozens of others, so it’s difficult to keep track.
Eddie Yates said:
I was confused when I received an email from Hin Xian Hoo-Tak Mao from Shanghai & he signed it off "Regards Mick"
Click to expand...
Many Chinese (a great bunch of lads) adopt „westernised“ names in business settings - pretty much all the Chinese colleagues I deal with regularly have done this, mainly because otherwise you’d get a lot of confusion from many similar names. And of course, another complication is they pronounce their names surname-first (which takes a minute to two to get the hang of).

Although I do have one colleague who chose the name „Fantasy“ (and he is a guy) which was a bit odd, but he’s happy with it and that’s all that matters.

As a company, we are massively big on diversity and inclusion (hence the support for pronouns, which we also publish in Microsoft Teams as well); we have an internal LGBTQ+ network (and organisers were astonished how many people signed-up) and you can join as an ally as well (as I have done).
 
Master Yates

Master Yates

John Robertson
Strummer said:
We have 400.000-plus employees around the world.

Many of whom are in cultures that differ from the basic stuff in terms of naming conventions (last name first, or adopting a „westernised“ first name - hello China) to countries where many have the same parental name (for example, Nguyen, in Vietnam) and - for me, anyway - our „corporate“ ability to state pronouns has helped me more that once to be able to correctly address a colleague - and the likewise opposite is true (or at least I am told, especially by colleagues on in the Asia-Pacific region).
Click to expand...

How does them having pronouns help you address them correctly?

Surely if their name is Gsjjshdjdjdjsjsj, you just start the email with: “Hi Gsjjshdjdjdjsjsj….” ?

I don’t see how Gsjjshdjdjdjsjsj’s sex comes into it, unless you only need to know so you start emails with either “alright mate” or “alright love” which I can’t see going down well in corporate Germany.

It’s a load of attention seeking bollocks


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
 
Statto

Statto

Free Kick Specialist
Strummer said:
Yeah, we have official offices in (from memory) 61 different countries, and resellers and sales and suchlike in dozens of others, so it’s difficult to keep track.

Many Chinese (a great bunch of lads) adopt „westernised“ names in business settings - pretty much all the Chinese colleagues I deal with regularly have done this, mainly because otherwise you’d get a lot of confusion from many similar names. And of course, another complication is they pronounce their names surname-first (which takes a minute to two to get the hang of).

Although I do have one colleague who chose the name „Fantasy“ (and he is a guy) which was a bit odd, but he’s happy with it and that’s all that matters.

As a company, we are massively big on diversity and inclusion (hence the support for pronouns, which we also publish in Microsoft Teams as well); we have an internal LGBTQ+ network (and organisers were astonished how many people signed-up) and you can join as an ally as well (as I have done).
Click to expand...
People should respect choice on it which includes the choice not to include pronouns at all if they don't want to.

It is helpful to know the gender of the person you're dealing with if
- the name is not clear for example if they are called something like Sam, where they could easily be male or female
- the name isn't native for example if they are not from the UK and the name isn't common
- they have a name but would prefer to be identified by different pronouns (for example if they are transgender or nonbinary) than their name suggests.

People just doing it to attention seek or virtue signal, etc etc, well thats different
 
Monkman

Monkman

Grenville Morris
How about if it's a broader email and you want to refer to that person in the third person, more than once so you don't want to keep repeating their name? Again - how is it hurting you? Live and let live, it might be making a huge difference to someone and is no skin off your nose.
 
Fitzcarraldo

Fitzcarraldo

Ian Storey-Moore
Pronoun signature statements is, for most, weak-form signalling sprinkled with a dose of fear.
 
Fitzcarraldo

Fitzcarraldo

Ian Storey-Moore
You assume offence is needed to have an opinion?
 
Captain Sinister

Captain Sinister

Senior doom Monger
Alvar Hanso said:
I think going out of your way to be offended by pronoun signature statements is weak-form signalling sprinkled with a dose of fear and a dash of attention seeking
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I started this with my rant.
1 I am not offended by the practice, not in the least: I just think it has reached a state of ridiculousness that anyone with common sense and a love of humanity would boggle at;
2 Anyone who posts on the forum is attention-seeking, whatever the thread they are posting on - even you Alvar;
3 My rant was nothing to do with offence: it was all about the sad state of affairs that results in people and organisations feeling they have to add which personal pronoun they want to be linked with.
In the days of sanity, reason, and common sense people would sign off with Mr, Mrs, Miss, or Ms (females wanting not to disclose their marital status).
I am quite offended at being labelled "weak", "fearful", but i do confess to being a bit of an attention seeker, so please desist from offending me!
Yours sincerely
Captain Sinister (Mr).
 
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Alvar Hanso

Alvar Hanso

Jack Burkitt
GOBIAS said:
I don’t think anyone is arsed that people decide to live however they do. Or they are what they are.

I think people are just poking a bit of fun at putting pronouns on the signature when it isn’t really relevant for most. Jokey faux outrage at most, no malice.
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I appreciate most of the comments on here are light hearted and playing up to a ‘confused old man’ persona for comedy effect.

But

1) a vocal minority have mistaken the light hearted comments for a green light to spout vitriol
2) when that vitriol is aimed at a loved one, it’s difficult to stay silent and not call it out
 
Monkman

Monkman

Grenville Morris
Captain Sinister said:
I started this with my rant.
1 I am not offended by the practice, not in the least: I just think it has reached a state of ridiculousness that anyone with common sense and a love of humanity would boggle at;
2 Anyone who posts on the forum is attention-seeking, whatever the thread they are posting on - even you Alvar;
3 My rant was nothing to do with offence: it was all about the sad state of affairs that results in people and organisations feeling they have to add which personal pronoun they want to be linked with.
In the days of sanity, reason, and common sense people would sign off with Mr, Mrs, Miss, or Ms (females wanting not to disclose their marital status).
I am quite offended at being labelled "weak", "fearful", but i do confess to being a bit of an attention seeker, so please desist from offending me!
Yours sincerely
Captain Sinister (Mr).
Click to expand...
Why is it a sad state of affairs? Who is it hurting?

The 'good old days' that you harken back to were good for you and me, but not so good for the type of people affected by this subject. Incidentally the use of Ms used to be railed against by the same sort of people who are up in arms about the pronoun thing. Society moves forward. We still have a way to go, but we're getting there.
 
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