MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Behave.
-
All - as you will understand, the forum is exceptionally busy at this time. The admins and moderators simply don't have time to read every post in every thread. Could you PLEASE use the "Report" option below a post to flag any content that you feel we need to be aware of. We'll review everything reported as a priority and deal with it accordingly. Thank you.
Neco Shay Williams
- Thread starter Rzar
- Start date
Behave.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
NJMV and I'm sure if you look up through this very thread you'll see a few people commenting that we got the RWB of one of the sides who finished above us and won the league easily.
I seem to recall also people were saying that they weren't too miffed we didn't appear to be after Djed because we had signed an improved version in Williams.
I am far from Neco's biggest fan, but even taking that into account, I'm not sure if we have the better side of the deal (as opposed to signing Spence, that is) or not.
Whilst Neco has played for us, and done relatively OK in most parts for a kid of 21, Spence spent most of the season in the reserves as 3rd/4th choice RB at Spurs, admittedly a huge step up than Forest, and by all accounts he's been a bit of a mixed bag in France on loan.
Do we think that Spence would be targeted as a player who likes to get forward and doubled on to stop this & also to target his weaker defending? I think so.
Neco did well for Fulham last season. That we targeted him to replace Spence didn't raise eyebrows on here.
Tobias
Jack Burkitt
Djed is the far superior player of the two.
If we went into the season with Spence, Garner and Zinckernagel in the squad instead of Williams, [Pick your least favourite CM] and Lingard would we have been any worse this season?
If we went into the season with Spence, Garner and Zinckernagel in the squad instead of Williams, [Pick your least favourite CM] and Lingard would we have been any worse this season?
DizzyBala
Jack Armstrong
It'd essentially be Williams, Lingard and probably Freuler given how much he's played I think.
To answer your question, I don't think overall there would have been much difference in individual quality between either three but I think as a team we probably wouldn't have had as many issues.
Freuler hasn't had much impact on games. Could Garner have impacted a Premierleague game? Maybe.
Zinckernagel had some poor moments in the Championship and was inconsistent but then there was times where he actually linked the play really well. Not maybe at the level of Gibbs-White but I think he'd of had more impact than Lingard. Lingard's main impact was press attention if I'm honest. People paid attention to what we were doing more because he was our "marquee" signing.
In the case of Spence, I think in terms of defence, neither him or Williams are that great. The difference with Spence is that he has the pace to recover. He also with his overlapping, took the pressure off Johnson. Double up on Brennan, he's doing nothing but when you are worrying about Djed as well, gaps develop. Same thing for Lolley and Cash when they had their thing going. Djed would have been found out defensively quite a bit still though.
All in all, Garner/Djed/Zinckernagel probably would have been slightly better than Freuler/Williams/Lingard but I think you could throw Davis or even Grabban in there against Dennis or Wood if I'm honest too, in terms of how the team would play as a collective. Less quality but more synergy.
magicwoand
It tizwas it is
People who know nothing about football said that in an attempt to justify that it wasn’t a balls up spending a fortune on an inferior LWB to probably our best player last season. There was.an attempt by a few to paint Neco as the better buy due to sour grapes. In every aspect of his game Djed is superior.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
I'm sure a few people bought it because Liam Henshaw went balls deep in praising Williams over Spence in Summer...
.... But his "analytics" never once considered that Fulham play neat, slow, possession football and Forest play high octane, direct, counter attacking football.
It's sort of irrelevant anyway as Spence was set on Spurs. If he was open to a permanent move to us then I'm not convinced in the slightest we would have gone for Williams instead.
Berkshire Red
Jack Armstrong
Everton don't know either, he has been injured for the vast part of the season.
All this "we shoulda signed". I'm sure Forest wanted Garner but ManU weren't playing ball and Forest couldn't really wait around for something which may have never happened.
Zinks would have been a failure IMHO. Was really inconsistent in the Championship and we've seen how big the step us has been.
Djed was a disappointment, because I think he would have been better than Neco. But, he didn't want to stay here, end of story.
Villa's valuation of Davis is disappointing, I think he could have done a job for us, just not for £15m.
Omar Devone Little
Mr Realistic
If anyone thinks Williams is better than Spence drop me a PM as I have some magic beans I'd like to sell you.
I think Spence probably is better than Williams at this point but I'd rather have a player who wants to be here.
Same with Samba, I find it not believable in the slightest that if either of them had wanted to play for Forest this season, then they wouldnt be here.
All this pining for ex-players is a bit sad - particularly loan players. I'd hate to see you after a break up!
Same with Samba, I find it not believable in the slightest that if either of them had wanted to play for Forest this season, then they wouldnt be here.
All this pining for ex-players is a bit sad - particularly loan players. I'd hate to see you after a break up!
MASE
Up-Front
Add Davis & each player you have listed is a far better fit for the Cooper MO than we currently have.
I often refer back to last seasons footage to give myself a lift & these players were all instrumental in carving teams up on the break.
REDDERS78
Jack Armstrong
Pathetic Isn't it? The ones that get me most are those that talk as if Spence wanted to be here, like we forced Spurs to spend 20m on him but he really wanted to stay here
.I swear there's some that will still be talking about Djed Spence in 3 or 4 seasons. He had a very good season with us, as did Neco with Fulham but its over - let it go. There's no actual evidence to suggest Spence is any more capable at this level anyway.
Take the shackles off and move on, jesus wept.
Berkshire Red
Jack Armstrong
Agree on all apart from Zinkernagel. He went missing too often last season, imagine how invisible he would have been against Premier League midfields?
MASE
Up-Front
Pathetic Isn't it? The ones that get me most are those that talk as if Spence wanted to be here, like we forced Spurs to spend 20m on him but he really wanted to stay here
I swear there's some that will still be talking about Djed Spence in 3 or 4 seasons. He had a very good season with us, as did Neco with Fulham but its over - let it go. There's no actual evidence to suggest Spence is any more capable at this level anyway.
Take the shackles off and move on, jesus wept.
Pathetics a strong word. We're talking about arguably the most instrumental player in getting us up. We lack pace on the counter & he brings it in spades. Infinitely better fit than Williams.
His joy at Wembley was palpable, didnt look like the biggest job in the world convincing him to stay. We none of us really know how hard we tried.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Try not to pine too much about ex-players chaps.
Spence was great, but we had to ditch the 3412 because it was defensively too open. That would have limited his attacking runs playing as a flat right back.
Zinkernagel was decent but wouldn't have him over MGW.
Davis was great but look how many injuries we've had this season playing at such a higher pace of football. No chance Davis would have avoided injuries in this league.
If we go down I'd like to see us go for all of the again, but for now, I don't miss them as individuals, just miss the team spirit.
Spence was great, but we had to ditch the 3412 because it was defensively too open. That would have limited his attacking runs playing as a flat right back.
Zinkernagel was decent but wouldn't have him over MGW.
Davis was great but look how many injuries we've had this season playing at such a higher pace of football. No chance Davis would have avoided injuries in this league.
If we go down I'd like to see us go for all of the again, but for now, I don't miss them as individuals, just miss the team spirit.
I only pine for the Fjords.
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
Of course, the flipside of that is...he might well end up back here at some point anyway, just because he didn't choose us initially, doesn't mean he won't change his mind given how this season has gone (if our recruitment team still want him and EM decides we can afford his now likely higher salary).
I site Jack Colback as an example for a player who was here on loan, didn't sign permanently, was away for a year and then came back for another go.
Haych
John Robertson
Only 3 or 4 seasons? I’m sure people discussed Billy for about a decade so I reckon we’ve got a bit longer.Pathetic Isn't it? The ones that get me most are those that talk as if Spence wanted to be here, like we forced Spurs to spend 20m on him but he really wanted to stay here
I swear there's some that will still be talking about Djed Spence in 3 or 4 seasons. He had a very good season with us, as did Neco with Fulham but its over - let it go. There's no actual evidence to suggest Spence is any more capable at this level anyway.
Take the shackles off and move on, jesus wept.
I’m sure if we go down it’ll only increase the chatter, I love all of last seasons side and wish we kept the band together even if just for consistency’s sake but it’s hard to that when half of them weren’t interested or not available.
REDDERS78
Jack Armstrong
So you're advocating Spence as a full back or wing back here?
Were playing a totally different game to the one we played last season anyway. Unless your suggesting he's a better RB than Aurier or that he's worthy of us changing our formation for? Neco is currently only cover at RB and I agree, he's not a great one, but Spence defensively wasn't perfect if were honest. Both are clearly wing backs and that's where both shined last season.
Do you seriously in your heart of hearts think that a kid from London was ever going to turn down the chance to play back home for a club in the Champions League, on astronomical money? You cant be serious?
It was clearly a done deal WAY before the play off final.Holding an emotional attachment to a player is one thing, but blaming the club is utterly ridiculous given the circumstances. I loved Djed, hope he has a great career but he was never going to stay here, what is the benefit in continually harping on about it. Its nearly a year since his loan ended man!
REDDERS78
Jack Armstrong
Fair point mate and the way things have gone for him you could see it as a possibility. Unless we revert back to 3 across the back it would be pointless anyway to be honest.
REDDERS78
Jack Armstrong
I DREAM of the day we can play that way in this division but the brutal reality became obvious inside a couple of games.
You need 2 absolute monsters in the middle of the park to be successful at this level playing that way, only then can you see how good your wing backs really are. Its funny because when we got promoted I assumed we could just stroll in where we left off. I think everyone including Cooper did to be honest.
Its one of the reasons I've not enjoyed this season If I'm honest, it can be as dull as bleddy dishwater at times.
Berkshire Red
Jack Armstrong
It's not like we didn't try for them. Didn't Cheik Doucoure and Amadou Onana both turn us down allegedly? And Djibril Sow at Frankfurt meets that criteria too, I believe. I think we knew what we needed, we just couldn't get it at a price that worked for us. Kouyate was an afterthought, a decent one until the World Cup though. Wonder how close he is to returning?
congo_red_49
Ale Ape
2 weeks.....
MASE
Up-Front
Where did I say I blamed the club? Im just suggesting no one was party to the discussions on Djed, so we'll never know how serious both parties were in continuing the relationship.So you're advocating Spence as a full back or wing back here?
Were playing a totally different game to the one we played last season anyway. Unless your suggesting he's a better RB than Aurier or that he's worthy of us changing our formation for? Neco is currently only cover at RB and I agree, he's not a great one, but Spence defensively wasn't perfect if were honest. Both are clearly wing backs and that's where both shined last season.
Do you seriously in your heart of hearts think that a kid from London was ever going to turn down the chance to play back home for a club in the Champions League, on astronomical money? You cant be serious?
Holding an emotional attachment to a player is one thing, but blaming the club is utterly ridiculous given the circumstances. I loved Djed, hope he has a great career but he was never going to stay here, what is the benefit in continually harping on about it. Its nearly a year since his loan ended man!
So it comes down to whether Spence fits currently.
I doubt we're playing the 433 out of choice. Its utterly turgid to watch & largely unproductive, what it does do though, is give us a fighting chance to compete using large numbers in defence. Sadly we're a counter attacking side who lacks pace, so as a contingency, Id have Spence in for Aurier right now, he'd bring a totally different problem & f*** knows we've enough cover behind. I think his defensive side is underrated & he's got the pace to get up & down.
The dream though, was to recruit in the summer, around or in place of components that clearly worked, granted at a lower level, but it was Coopers Mo & everything clicked. Recruitment this year has forced us to abandon that & run for cover, thats where Id be looking if we dont make it this season.
Certainly wouldnt be looking at Cooper, its a miracle we are where we are.
REDDERS78
Jack Armstrong
Not sure on Doucoure or Onana, we were linked with that many it got ridiculous. I think were learning the hard way how important your 2 CM are at this level. We've used that many combos due to injury that we just cant get it settled.
I HOPE Kouyate is back next week because I think both him and Yates could be absolutely crucial, but probably both injured again, who knows.
REDDERS78
Jack Armstrong
Fair points.
The only real issue is playing Spence as a full back in a 4-3-3 (and no, 100% not playing that through choice I agree) would be risky. He's not as good as Serge defensively and lets be honest, he would spend more time defending than attacking in a 4-3-3 and leave us woefully exposed if he did. Also would balls the balance of the side up. For me, he would only ever work at this level as a wing back.
Either way, he's not our player so we'll have to crack on.