Standard of Referees

valspoodle said:
"Who's the bastard in the black" is no longer appropriate now that they all wear strange coloured kits.

I think even though we were rubbish, if one feels it is necessary, one can still moan about the refs ability. The two things are not mutually exclusive.
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You are absolutely right, VP!

"Who's the bastard in the gaudy fluorescent-coloured mess of a kit?" does not quite have the same ring to it!
 
Homesick Alien said:
An incompetent ref is not preventing a team that's playing well from winning.

Was it the ref's fault Sels was glued to his line? Ref's fault that Munoz completely misjudged the flight of the ball? Or that Ndoye is about as menacing as a toddler? Or that we consistently misplaced passes or took too long to make them?

It's a cop out for me. Sort your own shit out and the ref is not a factor.

And by the way the right decision was made anyway, it was a foul and the server for this forum would've melted if it was the other end and not given. Comments like "yeah but 3 years and 4 months ago a very similar foul wasn't given for us" are pathetic really.
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So Sunderland should have played better today, because the ref and VAR missed the blatant hand ball by Anderson?
 
Homesick Alien said:
I still think conceding 5 goals was probably more of a hindrance of winning...
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What about Man United last week should they of not conceded this goal neither 🤣.

www.skysports.com

Pro Ref chief Howard Webb admits VAR had 'tunnel vision' on Erling Haaland leading to Enzo Fernandez error

Pro Ref chief Howard Webb says VAR had tunnel vision on Erling Haaland which led to them missing Enzo Fernandezs offside in the Manchester derby; Haalands goal was given offside but VAR overturned the decision, despite Fernandez interfering with play from an offside position
www.skysports.com www.skysports.com
 
uredsuns said:
What about Man United last week should they of not conceded this goal neither 🤣.

www.skysports.com

Pro Ref chief Howard Webb admits VAR had 'tunnel vision' on Erling Haaland leading to Enzo Fernandez error

Pro Ref chief Howard Webb says VAR had tunnel vision on Erling Haaland which led to them missing Enzo Fernandezs offside in the Manchester derby; Haalands goal was given offside but VAR overturned the decision, despite Fernandez interfering with play from an offside position
www.skysports.com www.skysports.com
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Probably not but then again they should have been against 11 men for me anyway so it evened out.

If you can't beat a team that has 10 men for 3 quarters of the game again is that the refs fault?
 
Homesick Alien said:
For me anyone complaining about a decision against Forest needs to ask themselves the following question:

Would I want the same decision against the opposition if it was at the other end?

If the answer is yes then you have no grounds for complaint in my opinion.
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But football isn’t a context free vacuum which is what you are trying to suggest.

In a game refereed by Jarred Gillett, in the way that it was, no, we shouldn’t have been crying out for it at the other end. That wasn’t a foul all afternoon, and to suddenly do an about face to make it a foul to chalk off a goal is disgraceful, whether it be for us or the opposition.

Now, if it had been a nitpicky game where slight contact was a free kick all game then, yes, of course we’d want it given, because to do so would be that magic word, consistent.

Isn’t consistency all we really ask for? It’s too much to expect across all the refs game to game, but it’s absolutely fundamental to the fairness of the sport that the rules are applied consistently across an individual game in isolation. That didn’t happen yesterday with our goal, and it would be equally unjust if the same had happened to Coventry.
 
andyd said:
But football isn’t a context free vacuum which is what you are trying to suggest.

In a game refereed by Jarred Gillett, in the way that it was, no, we shouldn’t have been crying out for it at the other end. That wasn’t a foul all afternoon, and to suddenly do an about face to make it a foul to chalk off a goal is disgraceful, whether it be for us or the opposition.

Now, if it had been a nitpicky game where slight contact was a free kick all game then, yes, of course we’d want it given, because to do so would be that magic word, consistent.

Isn’t consistency all we really ask for? It’s too much to expect across all the refs game to game, but it’s absolutely fundamental to the fairness of the sport that the rules are applied consistently across an individual game in isolation. That didn’t happen yesterday with our goal, and it would be equally unjust if the same had happened to Coventry.
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If Murillo is fouled by their forward in exactly the same way and they scored from it are you saying the supporters wouldn't be demanding it be called as a foul?
 
Homesick Alien said:
If Murillo is fouled by their forward in exactly the same way and they scored from it are you saying the supporters wouldn't be demanding it be called as a foul?
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I didn’t say that, because supporters are insanely partisan in the moment and want everything in their favour.

But when reflecting on it honestly, if the decision was given consistently with how the whole game had been reffed, I’d like to think people had enough football sense to accept that, yes.
 
uredsuns said:
Liverpool should have scored more too because VAR got this wrong? You cant keep saying conceding goals costs you games when match officials consistently even with VAR get it wrong.

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Ok.

It's unfortunate that refs are out to get us every week.
 
maybebrayyy/status/2101413577324196307?s=12&t=uwKnSuBGcJJ86qOokR_YJA

Doesn’t change the fact that there was contact from Jesus but does show that that didn’t cause him to hit the deck.
 
I look forward to hearing Howard Webb make the same dull statement he does every week, blaming mistakes and errors in his officials work. As Strummer said, if anyone performed constantly as poorly as some of the officials in the Premier League, they'd be asked to look elsewhere for employment.
Theres a reason so many former 'top' officials have left the country completely on retiring from the game, and its not due to the way the media looks at them.
The rot in refereeing starts at the top, and, unfortunately, will continue as long as Webb is in the pocket of certain people...
 
“I believe Igor Jesus’ go
andyd said:
But football isn’t a context free vacuum which is what you are trying to suggest.

In a game refereed by Jarred Gillett, in the way that it was, no, we shouldn’t have been crying out for it at the other end. That wasn’t a foul all afternoon, and to suddenly do an about face to make it a foul to chalk off a goal is disgraceful, whether it be for us or the opposition.

Now, if it had been a nitpicky game where slight contact was a free kick all game then, yes, of course we’d want it given, because to do so would be that magic word, consistent.

Isn’t consistency all we really ask for? It’s too much to expect across all the refs game to game, but it’s absolutely fundamental to the fairness of the sport that the rules are applied consistently across an individual game in isolation. That didn’t happen yesterday with our goal, and it would be equally unjust if the same had happened to Coventry.
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In the game when Neco was pushed over in the box I was OK with it not being given as it was the way the game was refereed. But once he had given the foul by Jesus it infuriates you.
 
Another way of looking at the incident if a defender had stepped on an attacker in exactly the same way would VARS intervened to give the penalty?

My issue is not that it was disallowed but the same incident is treated differently.
VARS would say that it was minimal contact/ not a clear and obvious error/ not for them to Ref the game.
 
birkbeck said:
Another way of looking at the incident if a defender had stepped on an attacker in exactly the same way would VARS intervened to give the penalty?
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Probably.

Having your ankle raked, even "light" contact, can hurt and put you off balance, even after taking a couple of steps.

VAR got it right for me. Not sure why ref got sent to monitor, he clearly didn't see the contact so should have just been told the decision needed to be overturned because he missed it.
 
Homesick Alien said:
If Murillo is fouled by their forward in exactly the same way and they scored from it are you saying the supporters wouldn't be demanding it be called as a foul?
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I look at things this way as well. I think we would be saying that.

The kick helped him pick the ball away from the player and especially so when he hit the deck. So it was a pretty key part of the build up.
GOBIAS said:
“I believe Igor Jesus’ go

In the game when Neco was pushed over in the box I was OK with it not being given as it was the way the game was refereed. But once he had given the foul by Jesus it infuriates you.
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Tbf he didn't give the foul, he gave a goal which is why VAR got involved and of course then any possible infringements by the team in the build up would be examined. They probably checked the non-penalty on Neco and the level of attention is probably different there, as it might have also been if he'd given that.

I bet it wasn't obvious until he'd seen more angles, which is why VAR done well is a good thing.

It's just annoying for us because we lost because of it. But if we'd scored it and Cov had gone down the other way and scored something similar we would be complaining about it...

I think it seems fair to suggest that if a goal is scored then any infringements matter more...
 
Chuckling to myself thinking about these decisions in comparison to that Everton game or the stamp on Neco’s ankle shortly after. I don’t think poor Colin Fray ever recovered from that one.

We’re just playing out a hybrid of WWE and 20th century football now. Semi-scripted nonsense built for TV plastics and selling ad inventory through rage bait. What’s the net value of VAR related articles to UK advertising, or to media houses more broadly? Probably quite high.
 
I've long since given up on expecting a consistency of decisions between games.

All I - And I suspect many - want, is for there to be a consistency within the game - So that whatever decision is made by the referee or VAR is the same in the game irrespective of where the offence was committed, who committed it and whether it led to a goal or not. A foul is a foul is a foul.

It should not depend on whether a team is playing well, or deserves to win, or not.

If they can get in game decisions consistent that would be a huge step forwards and then they can start to work on decisions between games.

Unfortunately that isn't happening.
 
Agreed Alf. The Premier League has now become farcical. The ref's have been given too much control and power over the game, the rules are being changed for the benefit of them and VAR, not for the benefit of the game or the players. The tail is wagging the dog. The rules are now being applied so inconsistently from game to game, ref to ref, or even decision to decision.

I watched Man U v Fulham yesterday and in the build up to Fulham's goal, Bassey and arms around Cunha and pulled him to the floor, but that was deemed ok, where Jesus touching another players foot, then tripping on his own player, gets deemed a foul? That's not a very high bar to me. All this "well there was contact.." narrative that pundits keep spewing out, is just as destructive. It is a contact sport still isn't it?

Premier league games now lack a level of realism or authenticity - everyone is pretending for the cameras ffs and therefore feels meaningless to me. I think people are feeling that in the ground too, people are being treated like customers with the pricing as it is and are therefore acting like them. Only certain people can afford it, so what you get is people wanting to be entertained for their money. But there's little fire or genuine excitement to get behind. Anything that is, like a goal, has been ruined by endless VAR checks. It feels like a process now and not a legitimate sport where anything can happen. Arsenal are the absolute zenith of that. Pure process football. Football by numbers. Pure bore.

The Sky pundits can bang on about how it's the best league in the world and disappear up their own arse with that, but it's not. It's not entertaining because money has sanitised it, and referee's are now part of the show. I don't know whether they want to do VAR like this as it presumably generates outrage content and therefore revenue for them. VAR can be done effectively and smoothly. I've seen plenty of games in Serie A where it's done well. We're just choosing not to for whatever reason.

In other news, old man shouts at cloud :p
 
I like how Neco Williams' 'impossible to see for 4 days' 'handball' was handball, but Anderson's clear and obvious swatting of the ball for advantage was not handball.
 
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