Sean Dyche

[Long Rodney]

I was thinking quite early into Dyche’s Forest career that I actually preferred it under Ange, but felt I was very much in a minority there.

Ange had obvious huge flaws but he was on the backfoot from the get go, given the situation he came into and the obvious media attention he brings with him (admittedly which is his own fault). We really should have won at least one of our games early on under him, and the longer the run went on the pressure got unbearable. It was certainly better to watch than some of the SD lowpoints, although if his chucking on of Woody late on in that Chelsea game was a last roll of the dice to save himself and he knew that he wasn’t fit, then that really is shitty.

I feel for Dyche a bit given how universally disliked his tenure was, and I certainly won’t comment on his personality as I feel it’s unfair without us knowing him, but my interest in the sport was as low as I can remember during that period, it was genuinely unenjoyable to watch us play. That 50/55 quid to watch us cross it 60 times onto James Tarkowski’s head was like tearing up money in front of my eyes.

 

[JonnoSnr]

I was thinking quite early into Dyche’s Forest career that I actually preferred it under Ange, but felt I was very much in a minority there.

Ange had obvious huge flaws but he was on the backfoot from the get go, given the situation he came into and the obvious media attention he brings with him (admittedly which is his own fault). We really should have won at least one of our games early on under him, and the longer the run went on the pressure got unbearable. It was certainly better to watch than some of the SD lowpoints, although if his chucking on of Woody late on in that Chelsea game was a last roll of the dice to save himself and he knew that he wasn’t fit, then that really is shitty.

I feel for Dyche a bit given how universally disliked his tenure was, and I certainly won’t comment on his personality as I feel it’s unfair without us knowing him, but my interest in the sport was as low as I can remember during that period, it was genuinely unenjoyable to watch us play. That 50/55 quid to watch us cross it 60 times onto James Tarkowski’s head was like tearing up money in front of my eyes.

I think we'd have been better off keeping Ange than hiring Dyche in hindsight but it's pure conjecture obviously. It certainly would've been better to watch.

 

[Rzar]

Both were terrible, but I think Ange is a better manager than Dyche because I feel like we saw the absolute worst case scenario of Ange's reign. Everything that could have gone wrong did, not always helping himself obviously with no effort to win anyone over and so much noise he generated mostly himself (he admitted these things himself).

On the other hand, Dyche's reign actually went quite well from his point of view (he admitted this himself) & that is likely the best we would have seen under Dyche - it was more of the same as what he delivered at Everton & Burnley.

 

[MaxiRobriguez]

Ange is benefiting from recency bias. He was terrible. Bar an entertaining first half Vs Betis we were ponderous going forward and incompetent at the back throughout. We were going down fast under him.

Dyche wasn't much better but at least we were semi organised for most of his tenure and his PPG record compared to Ange's was enough to probably keep us safe. Had we continued with Ange we'd already be relegated.

 

[Statto]

Both were terrible, but I think Ange is a better manager than Dyche because I feel like we saw the absolute worst case scenario of Ange's reign. Everything that could have gone wrong did, not always helping himself obviously with no effort to win anyone over and so much noise he generated mostly himself (he admitted these things himself).

On the other hand, Dyche's reign actually went quite well from his point of view (he admitted this himself) & that is likely the best we would have seen under Dyche - it was more of the same as what he delivered at Everton & Burnley.

You can't get much worse than losing every game except 1 in the league.

In 6 weeks we went from one of the most organised sides in the league to one of the most disorganised.

And for a manager who has a reputation for attacking football we scored like 2 goals in the league?

Maybe Dyche couldn't do any better, but we did do much better under him, he probably would have kept us up, but probably also wasn't the answer beyond this season.

But as Maxi said, if we'd kept Ange we'd probably be down by now

 

[Rzar]

You can't get much worse than losing every game except 1 in the league.

In 6 weeks we went from one of the most organised sides in the league to one of the most disorganised.

And for a manager who has a reputation for attacking football we scored like 2 goals in the league?

Maybe Dyche couldn't do any better, but we did do much better under him, he probably would have kept us up, but probably also wasn't the answer beyond this season.

But as Maxi said, if we'd kept Ange we'd probably be down by now

Did you read my post?

I think he was a better manager overall, everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong under Ange

Dyche's reign was an almost best case scenario for him

Both are garbage regardless, we just saw the worst of one and the best of another. In 5 years time, I guarentee Ange will be doing good jobs, Dyche will be managing West Brom or Stoke in the bottom half of the Championship.

 

[Statto]

Did you read my post?

I think he was a better manager overall, everything that could have gone wrong did go wrong under Ange

Dyche's reign was an almost best case scenario for him

Both are garbage regardless, we just saw the worst of one and the best of another. In 5 years time, I guarentee Ange will be doing good jobs, Dyche will be managing West Brom or Stoke in the bottom half of the Championship.

I don't think there was any sign anything was going to go better under Ange, or even any suggestion that he was better than the results showed.

The only credit I can possibly give him is that he had to play Arsenal, Chelsea, Newcastle in the league and that he also played Betis and Midgetland in the EL, the latter 2 qualified in 3rd and 4th, and the first group were all in the CL this season, so actually could we expect more from those? Where we could have and should have done better is Burnley and Sunderland, where we got 1 point under Ange, and 4-1 and 5-0 wins under VP. But we were not able to attack teams at all and in terms of defence letting in set pieces and careless goals all the time wasn't really going to get any better. We won't know how many points he would have picked up given 1/2/3 months more but it probably wouldn't be many.

I don't see what really makes him a "better manager overall". His record of winning things really only applies in minor leagues like Japan, Australia, at Celtic where realistically only 2 teams have won the SPL in 40 years (and Rangers have been bad recently, not the same since all the relegations truthfully), at Spurs he started well attacking teams until the rest of the PL realised how to counter it, they dropped off like a stone first season and second season they only stayed up because the bottom 3 were so bad. He did win the EL but they didn't really meet anyone good doing so did they?

I don't think Dyche would have done much better (although he would probably have done better once Wood came back) and agree with you on that point, but the only reason we didn't see much worse out of Ange is that the only possible thing which could have been worse is that we'd lost against Burnley and Betis as opposed to drawing those matches. Nothing in the performances showed we were getting any better, in fact it was getting worse.

 

[Osiris]

Both were terrible, but I think Ange is a better manager than Dyche because I feel like we saw the absolute worst case scenario of Ange's reign. Everything that could have gone wrong did, not always helping himself obviously with no effort to win anyone over and so much noise he generated mostly himself (he admitted these things himself).

On the other hand, Dyche's reign actually went quite well from his point of view (he admitted this himself) & that is likely the best we would have seen under Dyche - it was more of the same as what he delivered at Everton & Burnley.

As awful as Ange was I will say he had it tough his first four games in charge being away from home, and losing all four piled the pressure on him from the start; many fans had made their minds up about him before he even took charge of a match at the City Ground

If his first game had been at home like Dyche's was and resulted in a win I dare say his tenure wouldn't have as disastrous as it was

But at the end of the day, both managers were shit, so who cares?

 

[Long Rodney]

You can't get much worse than losing every game except 1 in the league.

In 6 weeks we went from one of the most organised sides in the league to one of the most disorganised.

And for a manager who has a reputation for attacking football we scored like 2 goals in the league?

Maybe Dyche couldn't do any better, but we did do much better under him, he probably would have kept us up, but probably also wasn't the answer beyond this season.

But as Maxi said, if we'd kept Ange we'd probably be down by now

We did create a lot under Ange though, it wasn’t his fault the likes of Woody couldn’t convert them. I hate going to xG but I think we even outperformed Chelsea in that final 0-3 game.

I know this is a pointless discussion as I agree it was only going one way under him, but as Rzar said I wouldn’t be surprised to see him do a decent job somewhere in the future. SD I’m not so sure.

 

[Statto]

We did create a lot under Ange though, it wasn’t his fault the likes of Woody couldn’t convert them. I hate going to xG but I think we even outperformed Chelsea in that final 0-3 game.

I know this is a pointless discussion as I agree it was only going one way under him, but as Rzar said I wouldn’t be surprised to see him do a decent job somewhere in the future. SD I’m not so sure.

Depends what we mean by a decent job.

Someone is bound to hire him based on the fact he managed Spurs, won the EL and that he does usually win a trophy especially in his 2nd season.

No doubt his level will also be some tin pot league where only a few teams can win things. And then he will win things because that requires basically turning up.

As for Dyche, I suppose he has a reasonable reputation still to get a side organised in the PL. I don't think the players wanted to play for him any more, and I don't think he had the ability to go where we needed to be, but I do think he would have kept us up this season, but we won't know the answer to that. But he managed to keep Burnley up for several seasons when Kompany and Parker haven't since and also he managed to keep Everton up when other managers wouldn't have. Though Moyes has managed to take them to another level, he is also an elite PL manager so that's not massively surprising. I could quite easily see Burnley rehiring him when Parker goes, or maybe one of the promoted sides seeing him as a step up (though probably not Cov, as I can imagine they would keep Lampard) and someone who could keep them in the division. I don't also think he's the type to go off to some minor foreign league like Ange probably will

 

[Scarpa's Skateboard]

I think we'd have been better off keeping Ange than hiring Dyche in hindsight but it's pure conjecture obviously. It certainly would've been better to watch.

If we'd have stuck with Ange they'd be a big 'R' next to our name in the table right now. That was only going one way. Thankfully we pulled the plug when we did

 

[Scarpa's Skateboard]

Not sure why this is even still being debated.

Ange was f***ing woeful, no tactics, we looked like a disorganised team of strangers that had lost grasp of the basics. He lost the dressing room early doors.

To be fair to Dyche he steadied the ship, made us more organised and put some points on the board. But he had to go when he did. The football was atrocious and his outdated attitude and methods also lost the dressing room

Pereira has restored balance in the force

 

[Chappers85]

The last few pages of this thread are mad. It's like 2 damned souls in Hell not only arguing about whose torture is worse, but saying the other one isn't that bad, and if you just put up with every bone in your body being broken one by one, pulled out through your arsehole as your organs are eternally liquified in Hell fire, you'd see that Dave the Demon was doing a pretty decent job actually.

THEY WERE BOTH SHIT! SHIT IN DIFFERENT WAYS, SURE. ONE WAS LONG COMPACTED CONSTIPATION. THE OTHER WAS RELENTLESS DEHYDRATING DIARRHOEA. IT DOESN’T MATTER WHICH ONE'S WORSE. HAVING ONE SHOULDN'T MAKE YOU LONG FOR THE OTHER. BOTH ARE AWFUL.

 

[Long Rodney]

Ange or Sean, I demand a poll!

 

[YouReds43]

Woan and Stone were nicknamed Dumb and Dumber by the players. Enough said.

 

[Statto]

Woan and Stone were nicknamed Dumb and Dumber by the players. Enough said.

Total lack of respect.

Both of them were fantastic players for us and to be fair know a lot about playing the game...

 

[Berkshire Red]

Total lack of respect.

Both of them were fantastic players for us and to be fair know a lot about playing the game...

Not remotely relevant. Why should they care? They knew about playing the game in the nineties. Yes, the nineties, a few decades ago. Completely irrelevant to the game our boys play today.

And that's why Dyche had to go. Way beyond his sell by date, along with his compadres. (who will always be legendary for their performances on the pitch).

 

[Statto]

Not remotely relevant. Why should they care? They knew about playing the game in the nineties. Yes, the nineties, a few decades ago. Completely irrelevant to the game our boys play today.

And that's why Dyche had to go. Way beyond his sell by date, along with his compadres. (who will always be legendary for their performances on the pitch).

I'm sure Utd would take a similar attitude to players disrespecting the likes of Cole, Yorke, Scholes, Cantona, Solskjaer?

If our current wingers like Ndoye, Bakwa and even maybe CHO and Hutchinson had the end product Stone and Woan had we would be much better off.

The fundamental aspects of the game haven't changed that much.

 

[YouReds43]

Total lack of respect.

Both of them were fantastic players for us and to be fair know a lot about playing the game...

I know that but in terms of coaching they were just Dyche’s puppets. If they had an ounce of say in the style of football Dyche has teams playing it would look much better.

 

[Scarpa's Skateboard]

And the debate goes on. Anyone would think it was an international break. Bring on the Villa. COYR!

 

[Notcher]

If I was taking instructions from Dyche, my ADHD brain couldn't get past 'Doesn't he talk funny...what's that all about?'.

I'm the same when Wood starts every reply to a question with "look". I always think it sounds dismissive but I know he's not meaning to be yet my brain can't get past it and I end up thinking about it for his entire reply.

 

[Berkshire Red]

I'm sure Utd would take a similar attitude to players disrespecting the likes of Cole, Yorke, Scholes, Cantona, Solskjaer?

If our current wingers like Ndoye, Bakwa and even maybe CHO and Hutchinson had the end product Stone and Woan had we would be much better off.

The fundamental aspects of the game haven't changed that much.

How coaches approach the game has changed.

And with all due respect, Stone and Woan aren't Treble Winners.

 

[jdthebrit]

I was thinking quite early into Dyche’s Forest career that I actually preferred it under Ange, but felt I was very much in a minority there.

Ange had obvious huge flaws but he was on the backfoot from the get go, given the situation he came into and the obvious media attention he brings with him (admittedly which is his own fault). We really should have won at least one of our games early on under him, and the longer the run went on the pressure got unbearable. It was certainly better to watch than some of the SD lowpoints, although if his chucking on of Woody late on in that Chelsea game was a last roll of the dice to save himself and he knew that he wasn’t fit, then that really is shitty.

I feel for Dyche a bit given how universally disliked his tenure was, and I certainly won’t comment on his personality as I feel it’s unfair without us knowing him, but my interest in the sport was as low as I can remember during that period, it was genuinely unenjoyable to watch us play. That 50/55 quid to watch us cross it 60 times onto James Tarkowski’s head was like tearing up money in front of my eyes.

Postecoglu was the reason why many beer alcoholics started rolling the barrels into the gaff again. I had no problem staying off the grog under Nuno, but you couldn't possibly watch anything with his (the former) ugly mug in it.

 

[Rob1965]

I'll bet he turned the CL match off last night, absolutely fuming

 

[oobidoobi]

I'm the same when Wood starts every reply to a question with "look". I always think it sounds dismissive but I know he's not meaning to be yet my brain can't get past it and I end up thinking about it for his entire reply.

People who start with "Listen..." bug the S*&@ out of me.