Ross Wilson - ex-Chief Football Officer
- Thread starter Strummer
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Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
Looking at the two 'keepers, Santos, Tavares and Origi, it's not looking good for Wilson, but if by the end of the season Sangaré, Dominguez, Murillo, Elanga and Aina are judged to be duds (CHO is primarily Steve's choice) then I expect he'll answer for that with his job.
I still have some confidence in the latter six, even if it might take a new manager to get the best from them....which I hope it won't by the way.
I still have some confidence in the latter six, even if it might take a new manager to get the best from them....which I hope it won't by the way.
GOBIAS
Ian Bowyer
seems a bit unfair to judge the recruitment in the middle of a bad run. We did this last year. A year ago people were saying for example Taiwo was a flop, Niakhate and injured flop, Lodi a flop, Boly a flop etc…
Agree with regards to the likes of Dominguez, Sangare, CHO and Elanga.
However I think they should have gone out and brought in one quality keeper rather than bring in both Turner and Vlach. And it was clear that we needed another genuine option upfront besides Taiwo. The failure to bring in a quality keeper or striker is a huge black mark against their name IMO. They need to redeem themselves on that front in January, for both their sakes and ours.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
True point but when Origi has had the chance he has done f*** all, and you don't need more time to see that Turner can't kick a football and that Ody can do this but can't manage shots or crosses. Now if we could combine them we'd probably have the ideal keeper.
Whatever the reason we haven't seen much of Santos, Montiel, and why Nuno, Dominguez, Sangare aren't getting much chances now, I'm sure Cooper knows his best side and they either aren't showing the ability or the desire to be in it.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
Tend to agree but think it's clear Turner was meant to be a #2 and Vlach came in late as a kind of not all your eggs in one basket move. We wanted Henderson didn't we, maybe the same quality of keeper to him just wasn't available to us.
Similar thing with Taiwo back up. Pretty obvious we wanted someone of that ilk, but we struggled to find that player and so we ended up with what was likely a backup, backup, backup choice in Origi loan.
I actually think recruitment has been ok, the only major black mark for me is Sangare, but he might still come good, clearly got talent just really struggling to adapt and we don't have the scope to work with him through it at the moment because we just need some points.
Major Oak Morgan
Viv Anderson
Just hope there is some £££ for a decent striker in Jan
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
I think landing the right player rather than having the cash will be the issue.
It'll most likely be either waiting for someone decent to become available on loan or gambling on an unknown from abroad (perhaps Brazil) for a low-ish fee.
Can't imagine there's much money left in the pot after our summer splurge (which required selling Brennan Johnson to achieve in the first place).
GOBIAS
Ian Bowyer
I can’t disagree really. I’m still not sure the keepers are totally written off either though. But we’ll see.
Otis Redding
Try A Little Tenderness
I usually prefer to give new signings far more time to prove themselves, but goalkeeper is such an important, one-off position at this level, and as such.....
Turner obviously signed with a commitment from us that he'd be given a genuine chance to be the number one, otherwise he'd probably have remained a back-up at Arsenal or gone on loan to a Championship club, in which case it looks as though whoever made that final decision on him got it significantly wrong. Williams did leave Turner with a bit to do last night following the back-pass, but he still just had time to put his foot right through it, however, to compound his poor clearance with such a soft handed response to the shot was pretty unforgiveable.
As for Vlachodimus, I've seen little to convince me that he wasn't recruited primarily because of his nationality and status in the national side. Add to that his stats in Portugal are reasonably impressive - notwithstanding that he was in one of the best two sides in that country and would never have come under even remotely the type of pressure that he would face in the PL, and it shows. I'll be very surprised (and hugely impressed) if he manages to sort himself out sufficiently enough to hold down a place here and not be at Olympiacos in 12-months time.
In conclusion, and in my opinion, EM needs to use every ounce of his persuasive powers to try and get Navas back.
Turner obviously signed with a commitment from us that he'd be given a genuine chance to be the number one, otherwise he'd probably have remained a back-up at Arsenal or gone on loan to a Championship club, in which case it looks as though whoever made that final decision on him got it significantly wrong. Williams did leave Turner with a bit to do last night following the back-pass, but he still just had time to put his foot right through it, however, to compound his poor clearance with such a soft handed response to the shot was pretty unforgiveable.
As for Vlachodimus, I've seen little to convince me that he wasn't recruited primarily because of his nationality and status in the national side. Add to that his stats in Portugal are reasonably impressive - notwithstanding that he was in one of the best two sides in that country and would never have come under even remotely the type of pressure that he would face in the PL, and it shows. I'll be very surprised (and hugely impressed) if he manages to sort himself out sufficiently enough to hold down a place here and not be at Olympiacos in 12-months time.
In conclusion, and in my opinion, EM needs to use every ounce of his persuasive powers to try and get Navas back.
D
Deleted member 4346
Guest
The issue is availability of that one quality keeper. I agree that's what we should have hoped for.
But good keepers already have a gig and anyone that great is probably already at a bigger club.
There's few truly quality keepers languishing in reserve teams. Henderson was out target but he was injured and that's proven to be a good one to have swerved.
I mean even if we look around now, who is available, willing to come and even marginally attainable? I'm struggling.
Maybe Ramsdale on a loan with an option to buy? But even then I imagine he'd have better suitors than us.
Shearstone
Derby delenda est
A unnamed premier league team enquired about Ramsdale a few weeks ago and were rebuffed. So don't think Arsenal are interested in offloading him this season at least.
Navas is injured so he's also unlikely. Problem is whoever we get in would still be scouted and signed by the same guys who thought the current 2 were good enough.
I mentioned this elsewhere, but man U spent £40m+ on a keeper and he's hardly been great, so was definitely a seller's market in the summer.
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Alf-engelos Mindminackers
The Artiste formally known as "w**ksy"
I don't feel it's the right time to judge Wilson at this time myself.
Firstly, I'm pretty sure DT says that he's been tasked with focusing more on club infrastructure than recruitment in one of his recent articles (stand corrected if I remember wrongly though)
But even if he was 100% responsible for every signing this past window, he was only at the club a short time before having to sign players and had the Johnno situation to deal with too. I mean, Origi is poor but we went for a loan so that kinda suggests it was a punt anyway.
Time will tell, he may be the man to finger, but similarly to how I find it hard to judge Coops tactics too harshly because of the players he has, I think whoever is recruiting at the club needs more than a few months in the role and to be rushed into a window.
Firstly, I'm pretty sure DT says that he's been tasked with focusing more on club infrastructure than recruitment in one of his recent articles (stand corrected if I remember wrongly though)
But even if he was 100% responsible for every signing this past window, he was only at the club a short time before having to sign players and had the Johnno situation to deal with too. I mean, Origi is poor but we went for a loan so that kinda suggests it was a punt anyway.
Time will tell, he may be the man to finger, but similarly to how I find it hard to judge Coops tactics too harshly because of the players he has, I think whoever is recruiting at the club needs more than a few months in the role and to be rushed into a window.
DizzyBala
Jack Burkitt
I did say in the final few days (pre-deadline day) that it felt like we'd waited too long to do anything.
I'm curious exactly how much money we had to spend without selling Brennan.
Elanga was before Brennan, as was Turner and Murillo so I imagine we did have a bit.
I don't know who made the decision to sell Brennan but in hindsight that was one of the decisions that could cost us at the end of the season. From what I can tell, all that money for Brennan has gone now and we've wasted it.
I'm curious exactly how much money we had to spend without selling Brennan.
Elanga was before Brennan, as was Turner and Murillo so I imagine we did have a bit.
I don't know who made the decision to sell Brennan but in hindsight that was one of the decisions that could cost us at the end of the season. From what I can tell, all that money for Brennan has gone now and we've wasted it.
Gyros Peter
Sauce salad?
There's a difference between wanting to sell and standing in someone's way though right?
I also think that money is available, but ultimately what do any of us actually know?
I also think that money is available, but ultimately what do any of us actually know?
Rzar
Bob McKinlay
Maybe people will disagree but I don't think this season problems are due to Brennan not being here.
In fact I think Elanga has filled his boots fairly well. Also massively premature to say we have wasted the money.
In fact I think Elanga has filled his boots fairly well. Also massively premature to say we have wasted the money.
D
Deleted member 4346
Guest
Absolutely.
Elanga has returned goals and assists at a much better rate than BJ did for us last year.
This is nothing to do with Johnson.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
I sort of agree. Elanga is a reasonable compromise on Brennan, he's not as good, but he's not £34m not as good.
Johnson is definitely more consistent though, so whilst Elanga has delivered a decent return, I think Johnson would have netted more if it was him in the team. That wouldn't be a problem if the £34m was invested in a better keeper and a reliable Taiwo backup rather than spending it all on a centre midfielder who's no better currently than someone who came through our youth system.
Rzar
Bob McKinlay
Pretty much all of this is complete hindsight though.
It's easy to say get a reliable backup for Taiwo but it is much easier said than done otherwise every club in the league would have a Taiwo. And the midfield needed improving which is what almost everyone wanted this summer. The keeper situation you are right though but again we didn't have huge options.
MaxiRobriguez
Bob McKinlay
I'm not sure it's that much in hindsight.
Awoniyi was an injury concern and it was well known all our attacking good work went through him. I suspect we tried desperately hard to find a good second choice but couldn't find one, hence ending up with Origi late in the window.
Keeper situation I'll forgive Forest for, we probably thought we'd be much more in control of games (by buying Sangare) and so less demand on the keepers, so didn't matter if they weren't Henderson or Navas.
Rzar
Bob McKinlay
Yeah in a dream world we would sign a quality backup but it's not that easy.
Redemption
One less gobshite...
On the keeper front we f**ked about with Man Utd over Hendo until we came to our senses.
At the time Turner signed, we still hadn't ruled Hendo out completely. So, presumably we always envisaged Hendo and Turner.
So once we had moved on from Hendo, there probably wasn't much going on and timing probably not on our side.
Vlachedemos, on paper, looked the part. How it turned out is a different matter.
We might have done better, but without hindsight did they really fail ?
At the time Turner signed, we still hadn't ruled Hendo out completely. So, presumably we always envisaged Hendo and Turner.
So once we had moved on from Hendo, there probably wasn't much going on and timing probably not on our side.
Vlachedemos, on paper, looked the part. How it turned out is a different matter.
We might have done better, but without hindsight did they really fail ?