Ewan Husami
First Team Squad
Thats the point, on current form pound for pound I think Ortega is the better keeper, for reasons stated by others on this thread. Each to their own though
Matz Willy Els Sels of BELGIUM!
- Thread starter donny
- Start date
Rzar
Bob McKinlay
Okay, but that is where we differ. I don't think Sels is out of form.
We know without question Sels is a safe pair of hands, Ortega looks a good keeper but it's based on a small sample size. Non debate in my eyes, when Sels is fit, he plays.
DizzyBala
Jack Burkitt
It's hard to judge keepers because if you've got a great defensive setup and you're not dropping a bollock yourself then you look fantastic.
Keepers are a bit like Strikers because if you concede goal(s) you've had a bad game but you might face like 6-7 shots and save 5 of them.
What I would say is that when we signed him and I remember we were scrapping around for a keeper after Turner and Vlachodimos were terrible, he wasn't really like a fan fare signing but certainly somewhere where you look at what he's done and thought, he's really worked out.
Keepers are a bit like Strikers because if you concede goal(s) you've had a bad game but you might face like 6-7 shots and save 5 of them.
What I would say is that when we signed him and I remember we were scrapping around for a keeper after Turner and Vlachodimos were terrible, he wasn't really like a fan fare signing but certainly somewhere where you look at what he's done and thought, he's really worked out.
Sir John Borlase Warren
First Team Squad
As with any position our perception of a player is influenced by the performance of those around, for better or for worse
But having said that, we are talking about last season's golden glove winner here so for me the jersey is still for Sels to lose. He's obviously been playing with an injury and deserves some slack.
Ortega is credible back-up. One bit of recruitment that we've got right.
But having said that, we are talking about last season's golden glove winner here so for me the jersey is still for Sels to lose. He's obviously been playing with an injury and deserves some slack.
Ortega is credible back-up. One bit of recruitment that we've got right.
Notcher
Ian Bowyer
Sels is a magnificent shot stopper, there's no denying that. My issue with Sels comes from his inability to ease pressure on the defence by coming for crosses and corners. Anyone that's played as a defender on here will know how important that can be for you to have someone that is more commanding and decisive.
Whilst being shorter and admittedly from a small sample size I've seen more from Ortega in this respect. He seems willing to come and get first contact, even if it means it's only knocking the ball 10 yards, it's 10 yards further from goal and often at less favourable angle for the attacking team. This, combined with far better distribution edges Ortega in favour from me and let's have it right, Ortega is no mug when it comes to shot-stopping either.
I've not spoken to anyone in the goalkeeper fraternity regarding them yet so I'm happy to be corrected by someone that was a goalkeeper as I appreciate it is so specialised. I rarely scout goalkeepers for this very reason and will often call someone else to go and watch a keeper that I might think is worthwhile.
Whilst being shorter and admittedly from a small sample size I've seen more from Ortega in this respect. He seems willing to come and get first contact, even if it means it's only knocking the ball 10 yards, it's 10 yards further from goal and often at less favourable angle for the attacking team. This, combined with far better distribution edges Ortega in favour from me and let's have it right, Ortega is no mug when it comes to shot-stopping either.
I've not spoken to anyone in the goalkeeper fraternity regarding them yet so I'm happy to be corrected by someone that was a goalkeeper as I appreciate it is so specialised. I rarely scout goalkeepers for this very reason and will often call someone else to go and watch a keeper that I might think is worthwhile.
Red Dog in a Dinghy
Geoff Thomas
Agree wholeheartedly on the distribution, not quite Samba-esque, but he gets us moving faster.
Plus, as you say, it invites less pressure either from knocking it out the way, or that the ball isn’t being picked up from a hopeful punt (Sels).
Sels is still a great keeper, but Ortega suits us better.
uptight9
Viv Anderson
On Wednesday, while not being at his absolute best or fittest, Sels still collected a few open-play crosses, and quite decisively so. And yeah, didn't come for one or 2. I'm still not sure Ortega is any better at doing that, guys, from what I've seen so far, as I've said before.
Corners are a separate thing and the choreographies executed there create a lot of problems for many teams, not just us, as many have pointed out. Despite the rules, there is a gray area and that's where badge check definitely comes into play.
Distribution is another discussion and I fully agree with you.
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Notcher
Ian Bowyer
Sels has been added to the Europa League squad.
Ewan Husami
First Team Squad
Instead of or as well as...?
Notcher
Ian Bowyer
Replaced Ortega.
Ewan Husami
First Team Squad
Thanks, must mean Ortega is out for a while then unfortunately (Gunn must be livid!)
Notcher
Ian Bowyer
I suppose the sensible thing to do is to be prepared and have 2 senior keepers in the squad of they're available anyway otherwise we're down to throwing in an academy keeper in if anything happened to Gunn.
Anyone dissing Belgian international goalie Matz Sels as somehow not being good enough for Forest needs to give their head a serious wobble.
He’s the best bloke Forest have had between the sticks for ages.
He’s the best bloke Forest have had between the sticks for ages.
Cloughie1975
Stuart Pearce
I always feel more confident when he’s playing.
Notcher
Ian Bowyer
I don't think anyone is saying he's not good enough for Forest mate.
Statto
Free Kick Specialist
This
I don't think that pointing our flaws in Sels' game - especially obvious ones - is going as far as saying either that he isn't good enough for us or that he isn't a good keeper. He obviously is, but a keeper who is similar in terms of shotstopping ability (maybe even less so) but with better command of crosses and with more varied distribution (though Sels is no way a Turner, Vlachodimos did in fact have good feet) than just kicking it, we might be able to improve the position further.
It was actually relatively clear in both John Victor and Ortega's spells before injury how much superior their distribution is to Sels.
I guess actually the flip side is that not only would we be looking at an Alisson or a Raya type keeper if we wanted that, because we'd be talking about an absolutely elite keeper to improve those weaknesses in Sels, but also to find capable cover for keepers or first team keepers in general is difficult - Utd have had long spells with unsuitable keepers (and I'm going to include de Gea in that too) but the new lad they got in seems to be less error prone than Onana or Bayindir have been for them, so maybe they have found one. Most of the PL keepers have some form of downside to their game. Overall Sels is fine, his weaknesses aren't major ones (except that he basically never saves a pen) and we could end up with far worse if we did try a change - considering we got him for basically nothing when we were struggling with two crap keepers is down to who found him, which was said to be nuno at the time - who of course played that position himself.
I'd basically agree with your earlier observation too, Notcher, that you have to really have played in goal to understand what makes a good keeper
Ewan Husami
First Team Squad
Dont think anyones saying hes not good enough (i'm not) i just think Ortega is currently the better overall keeper
Ewan Husami
First Team Squad
Sorry didnt read the other replies
GreeksBearingGifts
Stuart Pearce
Sels is probably one of the best shot stoppers in the Premier. It is unfortunate that he's not very good in stepping out of his goal but you can't have it all.
Rzar
Bob McKinlay
That is why you put him in whenever he is fit, he was absolutely brilliant today. Key saves at key times.
Carlos
Massive Member
Big Willy is one of the best keepers in the league, hands down
Listen 'ere young man
Stuart Pearce
Anyone who has manifested themselves into thinking Ortega should be ahead of Sels need to think twice.
He's made countless miraculous saves every season he's been with us. He might stay on his line, not come for crosses and just punt it long but he's gained so many crucial points with his keeping.
He's made countless miraculous saves every season he's been with us. He might stay on his line, not come for crosses and just punt it long but he's gained so many crucial points with his keeping.
Baronvon
John Robertson
Ortega is a very good goalkeeper and a more than capable option if needed.
But Sels is the main man. Always has been.
But Sels is the main man. Always has been.
I said go my mate pre-match Sels getting a few injuries hasnt been talked about enough. Was voted one of the best in the world in his position last season, if you miss an outfield player like that its always brought up, but apparently not as much with keepers
I was then worried I'd jinxed him, but instead Sels just does what Sels does and he helps us keep a clean sheet!
Absolute Forest legend imo!
I was then worried I'd jinxed him, but instead Sels just does what Sels does and he helps us keep a clean sheet!
Absolute Forest legend imo!