Harry Stefano Toffolo

[Statto]

Not sure how you expect the club to get around that? Either have a player signed very swiftly, or give Toff a contract extension?

I'm sure the club will have another left back in soon.

I also expect that Toff doesn't want to sit around waiting for another chance, he'll want to be first choice somewhere, even if that means a move back to the Championship.

His deal expires at the end of the month, and by then he wouldn't be contracted to us. But we didn't need to let this be known now, at least not in public, when the club presumably can let him know before.

We don't know how far the deal with the Brazilian lad is, or what the plan is for him, a player without top level experience is always a gamble, and they don't always work straight away like Murillo did. We also don't really know what the situation with Aina is though I thought he was automatically renewed, or indeed how bad Neco's injury is. With Moreno clearly not staying either, the worst case scenario is that we'd be thin on the ground.

Personally I think Toff would be fine on a contract extension but at his age he needs to be playing more regularly than we could offer. So it wouldn't be fair on him to keep him when he could go to Leeds or to a top CH side where he stands a good chance of getting a promotion.

But we could have waited until the deal was actually up or until we'd signed a replacement before announcing it - I guess there would be a grapevine anyway, but in principle, doing this just alerts other clubs to the fact we're after full backs, and that would increase the fee maybe. A bit like us clearly keeping Omar's injury situation under wraps whilst getting the deal done for Toff and LO'B when Hudds might well have asked for more knowing that at least initially Toff would be going to a PL club as the first choice LB, though we clearly were still looking as Lodi came in.

Omar Richards is technically still the fall back option. And we're hoping to get Cuiabano soon anyway.

Richards will never play for us. Apart from the fact he seems to be permanently broken, his loan spells haven't been convincing enough to suggest he would be a starting player in a top half PL side, which we were last season. But then, getting someone else to take him on with his fitness record is also a challenge.

 

[Steve B]

Seen us through some tough times in those early years, also seems like a sound lad when he’s interacting with people around the club. Good luck to you Harry! You’ve done the club proud.

 

[Notcher]

His deal expires at the end of the month, and by then he wouldn't be contracted to us. But we didn't need to let this be known now, at least not in public, when the club presumably can let him know before.

We don't know how far the deal with the Brazilian lad is, or what the plan is for him, a player without top level experience is always a gamble, and they don't always work straight away like Murillo did. We also don't really know what the situation with Aina is though I thought he was automatically renewed, or indeed how bad Neco's injury is. With Moreno clearly not staying either, the worst case scenario is that we'd be thin on the ground.

Personally I think Toff would be fine on a contract extension but at his age he needs to be playing more regularly than we could offer. So it wouldn't be fair on him to keep him when he could go to Leeds or to a top CH side where he stands a good chance of getting a promotion.

But we could have waited until the deal was actually up or until we'd signed a replacement before announcing it - I guess there would be a grapevine anyway, but in principle, doing this just alerts other clubs to the fact we're after full backs, and that would increase the fee maybe. A bit like us clearly keeping Omar's injury situation under wraps whilst getting the deal done for Toff and LO'B when Hudds might well have asked for more knowing that at least initially Toff would be going to a PL club as the first choice LB, though we clearly were still looking as Lodi came in.

Richards will never play for us. Apart from the fact he seems to be permanently broken, his loan spells haven't been convincing enough to suggest he would be a starting player in a top half PL side, which we were last season. But then, getting someone else to take him on with his fitness record is also a challenge.

I don't think it matters in the slightest tbh mate.

Anyone within the game worth their salt would have known Forest would release Toff as we've outgrown him and would want to upgrade. We all knew it as supporters so it goes without saying that people within clubs would recognise that.

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[GregorRobertson]

Richards will never play for us. Apart from the fact he seems to be permanently broken, his loan spells haven't been convincing enough to suggest he would be a starting player in a top half PL side, which we were last season. But then, getting someone else to take him on with his fitness record is also a challenge.

No, he won’t, because we’ll sign someone else. But he is still contracted to us so keeping Harry Toffolo just in case of the emergency we don’t sign another left back seems a bit daft.

Also I’d question your claim he is still broken. He played more minutes for Rio Ave last season than all but three other players. Would we be making a move for him if he wasn’t already our player? No, of course not. I expect he’ll stay at Rio Ave or get another move elsewhere.

 

[sammy the snake]

My lads have met Harry number of times, he absolutely will always chew the fat with Forest supporters. He’s not just a top pro footballer but a decent human being

 

[Statto]

No, he won’t, because we’ll sign someone else. But he is still contracted to us so keeping Harry Toffolo just in case of the emergency we don’t sign another left back seems a bit daft.

Also I’d question your claim he is still broken. He played more minutes for Rio Ave last season than all but three other players. Would we be making a move for him if he wasn’t already our player? No, of course not.

Rio Ave is a completely different level to the PL though.

The intensity to play in this division requires a much fitter player because the games are competitive, you don't get the time on the ball and are punished for being slightly out of position by the top teams especially, and there's less time between games as well as few easy games.

We brought in players from other top leagues with Toff and Richards. Freuler was a top player for Switzerland and in Serie A, and has gone back there. But his style, whilst you could see what he was doing tactically, left us more exposed because it needed other midfielders to pick up what wasn't in his game. Nico is a similar player, but is better at the things Freuler wasn't doing. As for the ones we signed from the Bundesliga, Mangala and Niakhate both spent significant time of the first season out injured, and even when they came back didn't look particularly acclimatised, and we don't need to mention Taiwo. But these people didn't have any issues over there. Of the players that worked that season, we had Boly and Aurier who had PL experience, Felipe and Lodi from a similar setup team in a better league (though it probably broke Felipe playing that much!) and then Johnson. Navas was an upgrade on Henderson but we didn't have much choice on that one.

`Rio Ave are midtable in a league only 2 or 3 teams ever win, and just seems to be a dumping ground for fringe players from EM's other clubs. As well as Omar, Panzo is there, and Aguilera from our side, and they also have 4 players on loan from Oly. If that's the level Richards is at, and not standing out at, then he won't be playing in the PL any time soon.

 

[Mr H]

My lads have met Harry number of times, he absolutely will always chew the fat with Forest supporters. He’s not just a top pro footballer but a decent human being

Agree: my son has only met him once but posed for a photograph and signed his autograph book! Made his day.

 

[Captain Sinister]

If asked, would Harry agree it wasn't a penalty in the Play-off final?
Excellent servant of the club over the 3-years, despite not being a regular first choice.
And as others have said, a real gentleman who would always stop for a chat when/if you met him.
I hope he wins over the supporters of his next club.
Cheers Harry!

 

[GregorRobertson]

Rio Ave is a completely different level to the PL though.

The intensity to play in this division requires a much fitter player because the games are competitive, you don't get the time on the ball and are punished for being slightly out of position by the top teams especially, and there's less time between games as well as few easy games.

We brought in players from other top leagues with Toff and Richards. Freuler was a top player for Switzerland and in Serie A, and has gone back there. But his style, whilst you could see what he was doing tactically, left us more exposed because it needed other midfielders to pick up what wasn't in his game. Nico is a similar player, but is better at the things Freuler wasn't doing. As for the ones we signed from the Bundesliga, Mangala and Niakhate both spent significant time of the first season out injured, and even when they came back didn't look particularly acclimatised, and we don't need to mention Taiwo. But these people didn't have any issues over there. Of the players that worked that season, we had Boly and Aurier who had PL experience, Felipe and Lodi from a similar setup team in a better league (though it probably broke Felipe playing that much!) and then Johnson. Navas was an upgrade on Henderson but we didn't have much choice on that one.

`Rio Ave are midtable in a league only 2 or 3 teams ever win, and just seems to be a dumping ground for fringe players from EM's other clubs. As well as Omar, Panzo is there, and Aguilera from our side, and they also have 4 players on loan from Oly. If that's the level Richards is at, and not standing out at, then he won't be playing in the PL any time soon.

I don’t disagree - you could have saved yourself an essay there .

I do disagree though that standing in Toffolo’s way and hanging onto to him until we sign another left back because we don’t have any left backs on the books would serve any purpose whatsoever. Not least because we do in fact have a left back on the books. It’s unlikely Toffolo will go to another premier league team anyway.

 

[Statto]

I don’t disagree - you could have saved yourself an essay there .

I do disagree though that standing in Toffolo’s way and hanging onto to him until we sign another left back because we don’t have any left backs on the books would serve any purpose whatsoever. Not least because we do in fact have a left back on the books. It’s not like Toffolo will go to another

Wasn't suggesting that we did. But, whilst it's not going to be a surprise we aren't offering him a new deal, we could have waited until his deal was actually up before announcing it. It's also not going to be a secret we're looking for left backs or full backs in general, but this would make it a certainty as opposed to a possibility we may retain Toff as cover.

At his age he needs to play and we aren't really in a position to give him that.

 

[Mr H]

If asked, would Harry agree it wasn't a penalty in the Play-off final?
Excellent servant of the club over the 3-years, despite not being a regular first choice.
And as others have said, a real gentleman who would always stop for a chat when/if you met him.
I hope he wins over the supporters of his next club.
Cheers Harry!

Lots of rumours he could be going to the Hun - Rangers.

 

[GregorRobertson]

Wasn't suggesting that we did. But, whilst it's not going to be a surprise we aren't offering him a new deal, we could have waited until his deal was actually up before announcing it. It's also not going to be a secret we're looking for left backs or full backs in general, but this would make it a certainty as opposed to a possibility we may retain Toff as cover.

At his age he needs to play and we aren't really in a position to give him that.

We’re sad to seem him go because he seems a good sort and never let us down, but I think you’re wildly overestimating how much his absence will affect future negotiations.

He was our backup left back last season. Notionally at least that role now belongs to Omar Richards until we get another one, which we will, and Richards will go on loan again or be sold.

 

[Bing Crosby's Head]

His deal expires at the end of the month, and by then he wouldn't be contracted to us. But we didn't need to let this be known now, at least not in public, when the club presumably can let him know before.

We did need to let this be known now as this week is the deadline to announce retained lists.

 

[king_congo_red]

Richards will never play for us. Apart from the fact he seems to be permanently broken, his loan spells haven't been convincing enough to suggest he would be a starting player in a top half PL side, which we were last season. But then, getting someone else to take him on with his fitness record is also a challenge.

I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his retirement, to be honest - he's clearly never going to get back to the level he was playing at and it will take a level of determination to keep plodding on at a much lower level.

 

[GregorRobertson]

I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his retirement, to be honest - he's clearly never going to get back to the level he was playing at and it will take a level of determination to keep plodding on at a much lower level.

Doubt it myself. He’s 27. If he was going to quit he would have done it already. He was pretty much ever-present for Rio Ave for most of last season. The premier league it is not, but it’s hardly much worse than the Championship or Scotland, say.

 

[Statto]

I wouldn't be surprised if he announced his retirement, to be honest - he's clearly never going to get back to the level he was playing at and it will take a level of determination to keep plodding on at a much lower level.

Does make you wonder really.

He's not particularly old, and nor was he even that experienced (or perhaps considered as a top CH player) when Reading sold him to Bayern, and he was there for a couple of seasons and did OK.

I guess the CH would be a possibility, but then they have 46 game seasons, and there would always be fitness doubts. I don't think much has been said about it, but there's always the potential elephant in the room about a player who - seemingly - broke down in training, with a stress fracture in the leg (which is rare to happen out of nowhere) and if there was actually any potential underlying cause for it, which they may or may not have worked out why. Unless something wasn't done properly in his medical, or was glossed over because the club didn't think it mattered, then he wasn't sold to us with anything known. But also, whilst a stress fracture in itself is only a few weeks to recover from, he then didn't play or train much for the whole season, and yes actually sometimes there can be muscle issues when recovering from a major injury, and then also the effect on confidence, it seems to have been an issue for too long. We shouldn't get players' medical info unless they're happy to make it public, but it wouldn't be too surprising if we did find out that there was an issue which is going to be career limiting at best.

I suppose we can always look at Sam Hutchinson, who retired for a couple of years as his knees were that bad, and when we had him on loan had issues still which limited his time, he's still managed to be a decent enough player for Weds for a long time, though he's clearly still unlucky, because he had a minor heart attack at the end of the season, you couldn't make it up - but he could easily have given up and stayed retired. If we look at tennis Andy Murray clearly enjoyed playing because he'd done most of what he could before his hip injury but still carried on playing for a couple of years, even though he didn't reach quite the same levels he had before, no-one else had played with a hip implant before, and likewise Stan Wawrinka is still playing at 40, albeit and not surprisingly not at the same level which got him almost to that of the Big Four and won 3 slams. They do it because they enjoy it, but would the same apply to Richards?

 

[Statto]

Doubt it myself. If he was going to quit he would have done it already. He was pretty much ever-present for Rio Ave for most of last season.

The trouble is we're probably not going to use him even as cover. We're not going to be able to sell him for anywhere near the fee we paid, and he still has another year left on his deal.

Probably the best he can hope for is a loan to a CH club or back to Rio Ave with a view to a permanent. But then, that takes up an outgoing loan spot for us, when we could be sending out others - like Zach, but not him as he's club trained. At his age, he needs to be playing if he's fit.

 

[king_congo_red]

Doubt it myself. He’s 27. If he was going to quit he would have done it already.

For clarity, I didn't say I was expecting him to, just that I wouldn't be surprised if he did.

 

[GregorRobertson]

The trouble is we're probably not going to use him even as cover. We're not going to be able to sell him for anywhere near the fee we paid, and he still has another year left on his deal.

Probably the best he can hope for is a loan to a CH club or back to Rio Ave with a view to a permanent. But then, that takes up an outgoing loan spot for us, when we could be sending out others - like Zach, but not him as he's club trained. At his age, he needs to be playing if he's fit.

Does any of that mean he’s going to retire aged 27/28? Just because he’s probably not good enough for the premier league any more? A league which by the way he’s never played in. The guy literally played in a European semifinal last season, and will I assume have got a winners medal having sat on the bench in the final. And then played pretty much a full league campaign this year - mostly starts including all the games against the big guns in Portugal. Think it’s a stretch to say he’s just going to sack his career off because he won’t make it at Forest.

 

[Notcher]

I can't see him retiring at all. He's now able to sign as free agent which will allow him to draw a sizeable signing on fee. That's the one that can set them up for good after football.

The club have probably announced this early for him as a favour to allow him to get ahead of the race when other free agents are announced at the end of the month.

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[king_congo_red]

I can't see him retiring at all. He's now able to sign as free agent which will allow him to draw a sizeable signing on fee. That's the one that can set them up for good after football.

Just to avoid the confusion which has clearly occurred here, the retirement discussion related to Richards not Toff.
(On a thread about Toff, I know...)
No-one is suggesting an early finish for Harry.

 

[Notcher]

Just to avoid the confusion which has clearly occurred here, the retirement discussion related to Richards not Toff.
(On a thread about Toff, I know...)
No-one is suggesting an early finish for Harry.

Ahh gotcha. I've obviously missed the Richards part mentioned, cheers.

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[Gaz1980]

He lives near me and looks very settled in Nottingham.

Would have thought it'd take a massive offer to up sticks and move his kids out of school and go to Rangers or Sunderland. Ideally he finds a good club and contract within a 90 min drive max.

 

[witneyred]

Ahh gotcha. I've obviously missed the Richards part mentioned, cheers.

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Easy done 3 pages back there was mention of a Nun, Swarfega, Cling Film and a Donkey.

 

[Notcher]

Easy done 3 pages back there was mention of a Nun, Swarfega, Cling Film and a Donkey.

As long as no squirrels were harmed in the making of that film.

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