Incident Involving Billy Sharp

Dogtits said:

Edward Snowden is a hero, I continue to yell that from the f***ing roof tops here in America.

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Bonalair said:

Video or it didn’t happen

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HBB said:

Nothing I can say will change your mind I can tell that, but I was a journalist for 20 odd years I worked in TV and radio for the BBC, Sky and freelanced for the likes of ITN, Meridian and Channel 4 didn't work much in papers but I know plenty who did.

I was (am) a council house kid from Bulwell, first in my family to go to Uni, worked f***ing hard to scrape my way into journalism school by working for free at Radio Nottm back in the 90s and while I did/have met my fair share of privileged middle/upper class people in the profession I met just as many whose backgrounds were the same as mine and I've met posh and poor, working class, middle and upper class in all the other sectors I've worked in since.

Not that we went around comparing our social credentials nor did we sit down to lectures from the Illuminati or consider the class angle for any story we covered just so we could stick it to the plebs. There's an editorial agenda in many outlets, its writ large and hardly hidden and you can choose to filter and ignore today in the same way as you could in the 50s, 60s whenever.

I generally refrain from responding when people slander my former profession because its become distressingly common to lump us all together and dismiss us as part of some kind of arm of the state under the thrall of the right wing or the left wing but basically its what it ever was - journalists are the easy enemy of whatever camp in which you plant your flag.

Personally I find your views and your casual assertions as damaging, lazy and ill-informed as they are insulting to the many fine, intelligent and principled people who I've worked with. But as has become increasingly common these days people now see their personal views as "THE" truth, yes they're pierced the veil, discovered the real world... be it anti-vaxxers, Trumpites, holocaust deniers or terrorists... Journalists aren't right all the time but at least we're trying, investigating, looking for the facts, sifting the evidence and are always open to new interpretations and explanations.

I won't say anymore on the subject as it'd be useless. But them again I'm probably still brainwashed by the deep state.

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HBB said:

Nothing I can say will change your mind I can tell that, but I was a journalist for 20 odd years I worked in TV and radio for the BBC, Sky and freelanced for the likes of ITN, Meridian and Channel 4 didn't work much in papers but I know plenty who did.

I was (am) a council house kid from Bulwell, first in my family to go to Uni, worked f***ing hard to scrape my way into journalism school by working for free at Radio Nottm back in the 90s and while I did/have met my fair share of privileged middle/upper class people in the profession I met just as many whose backgrounds were the same as mine and I've met posh and poor, working class, middle and upper class in all the other sectors I've worked in since.

Not that we went around comparing our social credentials nor did we sit down to lectures from the Illuminati or consider the class angle for any story we covered just so we could stick it to the plebs. There's an editorial agenda in many outlets, its writ large and hardly hidden and you can choose to filter and ignore today in the same way as you could in the 50s, 60s whenever.

I generally refrain from responding when people slander my former profession because its become distressingly common to lump us all together and dismiss us as part of some kind of arm of the state under the thrall of the right wing or the left wing but basically its what it ever was - journalists are the easy enemy of whatever camp in which you plant your flag.

Personally I find your views and your casual assertions as damaging, lazy and ill-informed as they are insulting to the many fine, intelligent and principled people who I've worked with. But as has become increasingly common these days people now see their personal views as "THE" truth, yes they're pierced the veil, discovered the real world... be it anti-vaxxers, Trumpites, holocaust deniers or terrorists... Journalists aren't right all the time but at least we're trying, investigating, looking for the facts, sifting the evidence and are always open to new interpretations and explanations.

I won't say anymore on the subject as it'd be useless. But them again I'm probably still brainwashed by the deep state.

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Cortez the Killer said:

Whilst I agree with your assertions that it's wrong to lump together whole sections of professions or societal classes, I'd also point towards how much press the Billy Sharp incident received in comparison to other positive stuff that happens in football - Zoe's fundraising, for instance - as an example of how journalists themselves can be guilty of demonising in general. Obviously not all journalists, but the generalisation is what's damaging and wrong, there needs to be nuance. However people prefer to not look for it.

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BryanRoy22 said:

People just appear to be more angry, with the last 2.5 years of the pandemic, the government.

Social media posts that they're reading.

There's so much tension building up inside them. It's not excusing their behaviour, but it's trying to find a reason for it.

They don't appear to have much control of themselves these days. Online or otherwise.

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Cortez the Killer said:

Whilst I agree with your assertions that it's wrong to lump together whole sections of professions or societal classes, I'd also point towards how much press the Billy Sharp incident received in comparison to other positive stuff that happens in football - Zoe's fundraising, for instance - as an example of how journalists themselves can be guilty of demonising in general. Obviously not all journalists, but the generalisation is what's damaging and wrong, there needs to be nuance. However people prefer to not look for it.

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

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Cortez the Killer said:

Whilst I agree with your assertions that it's wrong to lump together whole sections of professions or societal classes, I'd also point towards how much press the Billy Sharp incident received in comparison to other positive stuff that happens in football - Zoe's fundraising, for instance - as an example of how journalists themselves can be guilty of demonising in general. Obviously not all journalists, but the generalisation is what's damaging and wrong, there needs to be nuance. But people prefer to not look for it.

Sent from my SM-G780G using Tapatalk

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Dr Sheldon Cooper said:

Police arrest 25 year old in connection with "stamping" video

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-nottinghamshire-61511488

Heckingbotton is not shouting about this one being deserving a prison sentence.

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HBB said:

It'd take a long time to discuss many aspects of the points you raise Cortez, but in short when Journo's go for a story its because its unusual, out of the ordinary that's what grabs the attention. Because there's "some" trouble at football most games it doesn't get reported, but 50 people turn up for a pitched battle, that's news because of the scale, if someone died that's news because people usually get chinned not murdered. Those of a certain age will remember the infamous dart image from the 70's (in fact you can see it a read a bit more here https://www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/sport/violent-scenes-manchester-united-never-18081098). Bryn'll confirm I'm sure for those who don't know how Hooliganism was rife, so common that it wasn't reported much beyond despairing editorials about the collapse of society (sound familiar?) but the image of a dart in the nose - that makes it a story. I remember as a trainee journo calling the police incident line and shouting over to my editor that there has been a large car crash.. "anyone dead" he asked, "no" I replied, "f*** it then" he said. Scale, impact, unusual - hit those and its a story.

The fact that Billy Sharp is a player makes it a story, as the perception is that players don't get attacked during pitch invasions its that simple. The same as the Leicester fan who ran on against us - it was just unusual and hence it got lots of coverage, but crucially no-one was really hurt, while Billy need stiches. It's gone from "the potential for harm" which is the theme of stories about fans on pitches, to a player is actually attacked and from behind, and is left needing stiches and it could have been worse. That is a story in the way that Viera kicks out (no-one hurt) isn't really. I read the reports on the Sharp incident and while there was a small degree of sensationalism in the headline (which is its job, to attract the eye) but the coverage was pretty straightforward and factually correct. Yes it highlights our club in a poor light but in the main it was about the stupidity of one man, I think Heckingbottom's comments helped make it seem even more incendiary but again that's not the journo's fault. Hecks said what he said and it had the be reported as he's an important part of the story. Just as Billy's comments had to be reported but its measure of the man that his remarks were far more considered and took the heat out of it. But consider the furore about Derby fans singing about his son and his reaction, that overshadowed that game as it was unusual and its unusual for players to speak as strongly as they do, that made it news.

Part of the issue is that in attacking journo's you're attacking the messenger - we just report what happened and what people said those things happened, it was a story. Zoe's justgiving campaign should get coverage and would have gotten more I suspect if there had been little else going on but Everton winning, the events with Port Vale & Swindon, they've all overtaken the Sharp incident and again the focus is mainly on how the players were abused. It's visceral and its now, its why they get covered but the request for McBurnie to appear before police as has been noted here is serious but its a few days off and behind closed doors, its not sexy, its not now and therefore not news beyond a few lines.

Journo's report what happens, what's said - yes they have an angle and yes it might favour a particular view, they're not perfect but generally the reporting in this country is fair and accurate but they're not always "right" because right doesn't exist. What we try and be is as accurate and unbiased as we can be. Its not easy though. Consider if a bad tackle goes in by Yates and you're listening on the radio; was it deliberate, studs up, a sending off offence? You're listening to Colin Fray, you trust Colin, he's fair, balanced and measured, when he says it wasn't that bad and shouldn't be red you believe him. If you're a Derby fan you don't he's partisan he's on Forest's side he'll lie. Was it a red?? Only if the ref says it is. Id Colin a reliable witness, does he have a good view, is he unconsciously favouring Forest, does his relationship with Yates and belief that he's one of the good guys colour his judgement, it happened at the City Ground does the crowd reaction affect his perception.... Now imagine you weren't at the game and ask 10 different people what happened and if it was a red and you'll get ten different accounts, judgements and interpretations.

Sorry lecture over...

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valspoodle said:

One problem which journalists have is the tribalism in football.

You can write a piece which is an neutral as can be, as unbiased as possible and as accurate as Old Bailey evidence, but you are always going to get one side or the other, whichever is painted as the wrong doers, protesting that they are not at fault.

And so it goes. Those who chose to stick their heads above the parapet and write what they think is the truth (whether it is or not will be up for debate)must take the brickbats which are bound to fall on their heads.

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HBB said:

So true - for a while I worked for the company that took over the running of the Virgin Media website - at the time they had the right to internet highlights of football. We had forums and the worst lot by far were the Man City fans, if you said anything about the club it was evidence of how we were all against them and undoubtedly Utd fans and part of a conspiracy that included every part of the media and - god it was wearing.

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HBB said:

Nothing I can say will change your mind I can tell that, but I was a journalist for 20 odd years I worked in TV and radio for the BBC, Sky and freelanced for the likes of ITN, Meridian and Channel 4 didn't work much in papers but I know plenty who did.

I was (am) a council house kid from Bulwell, first in my family to go to Uni, worked f***ing hard to scrape my way into journalism school by working for free at Radio Nottm back in the 90s and while I did/have met my fair share of privileged middle/upper class people in the profession I met just as many whose backgrounds were the same as mine and I've met posh and poor, working class, middle and upper class in all the other sectors I've worked in since.

Not that we went around comparing our social credentials nor did we sit down to lectures from the Illuminati or consider the class angle for any story we covered just so we could stick it to the plebs. There's an editorial agenda in many outlets, its writ large and hardly hidden and you can choose to filter and ignore today in the same way as you could in the 50s, 60s whenever.

I generally refrain from responding when people slander my former profession because its become distressingly common to lump us all together and dismiss us as part of some kind of arm of the state under the thrall of the right wing or the left wing but basically its what it ever was - journalists are the easy enemy of whatever camp in which you plant your flag.

Personally I find your views and your casual assertions as damaging, lazy and ill-informed as they are insulting to the many fine, intelligent and principled people who I've worked with. But as has become increasingly common these days people now see their personal views as "THE" truth, yes they're pierced the veil, discovered the real world... be it anti-vaxxers, Trumpites, holocaust deniers or terrorists... Journalists aren't right all the time but at least we're trying, investigating, looking for the facts, sifting the evidence and are always open to new interpretations and explanations.

I won't say anymore on the subject as it'd be useless. But them again I'm probably still brainwashed by the deep state.

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mattw said:

My personal views are my personal views and I have the right to air them.

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mattw said:

The textbook labels are there at the end. Anti vaxxers, Trumpites. Come on give out something new at least.

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mattw said:

Any journalist or reporter working for an MSM outlet is controlled, that has now spread to the local media, which is largely owned by national entities. They work to the agenda.

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congo_red said:

And other people have the right to disagree with them.


My personal opinion on this is that he doesn't need to give you anything 'new'.

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mattw said:

The output gives you all the proof you need. Panicdemic period, was any medic or scientist sceptical of the government position invited to debate one pro the government position. Then let the viewer make their mind up. The answer is no, so they failed as a block to do their duty. Now as we head for stagflation get ready. If you have big loans get ready life is going to get a whole lot tougher. Look back at where it started and who encouraged it.

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Fitzcarraldo said:

Same lad that inferred, under the guise of humour no doubt, that I was stealing from my own charity.

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mattw said:

That isn't true but the basic point was never really addressed. If I put my £1 into a charity and most of that goes to somebody richer than me and the smaller amount goes to the charity then I call it a scam. Before you want to label me a bad person I put loads into Meadows Youth and sports clubs round the area. I know ALL the money is going where I am donating, or sponsoring..

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mattw said:

That isn't true but the basic point was never really addressed. If I put my £1 into a charity and most of that goes to somebody richer than me and the smaller amount goes to the charity then I call it a scam. Before you want to label me a bad person I put loads into Meadows Youth and sports clubs round the area. I know ALL the money is going where I am donating, or sponsoring..

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